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Re: How to ID a bad situation and either avoid it or get out quickly

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We can disagree.

The topic of this thread is for interested readers to describe
what is useful in identifying bad situations and either getting out
quickly or avoiding recruitment altogether.

Re: How to ID a bad situation and either avoid it or get out quickly

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Yes, there is a limit to everything. As there is a limit to openness, the same applies to secrecy. Reason dictates what is considered sacred and a non-issue. It’s when the arcane becomes questionable and hurtful, that it must be subjected to inquiry and open debate. In an open society, you can hold certain knowledge as divine and is protected by the law. Gods and secret knowledge, just like trade formulas and corporate policies have a place in an open society, but they have to be defensible when questioned. Outside reason, is a free-for-all, that if society gets too coy about, can obviously lead to victimization of the innocent or the impressionable, like the children. Religious cults, unfortunately, will always push the envelope. That’s their nature and how they thrive. Under the guise of divine knowledge (secret to public), a guru, let’s say, will feed his toe nails to followers as a form of a sacrament or will separate children from parents so the devotional service is not disrupted. These and other weird things going on behind closed door, citizens must bring up for an open debate and intelligible inquiry.

Re: How to ID a bad situation and either avoid it or get out quickly

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Another scenario:

Suppose a person is being courted by a group.

Suppose that group owns a high upkeep building, constructed at a cost of
millions of dollars, that will cost thousands of dollars to maintain.
Vast gardents to be trimmed and maintained, large ponds that require
regular cleaning, stone walls that go grimy from freeway traffic and
need expensive washing.

This building is an eyesore, the neighbors hate it, and just a few
initiated members are allowed access to it.

Suppose this same group has just this couple hundred members, increasingly elderly, and the guru and senior members are housed in palatial surroundings and need increasingly high levels of menial service.

Younger, stronger members are needed to provide all that help, take care of the palace.

A prospective recruit needs to know all of this so that he or she
can assess whether the group loves her for her true self, or just wants
a menial to wait upon its increasingly decrepit and senior elite and its nasty
tempered guru.

A menial who will bear all this bad temper in the name of surrendering ego to the Master.

Media Coverage of Cults and Legal Requirements of Religious Organisations

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Hi Everyone, this is my first post to the forum and I am an ex-member of the cult group, The Potter's House, Australia. The church also goes by Christian Fellowship Ministries, The Door, Victory Chapel etc founded by Wayman Mitchell. Mark and myself, both ex-members of the Potter's House Church took part in an ABC documentary where we spoke about our experiences. It is on Radio National and it is in the form of an audio podcast. It has been produced by David Rutledge, who has been with the ABC for almost a decade. Please share your thoughts! I've also included the link to Mark's interview with another ABC Producer. Mark discusses how religious organisations need to be held more strongly to account with regard to how they treat their volunteers in light of the Work, Health and Safety Act 2011. The more exposure these oppressive organisations have, the more their recruitment of vulnerable victims is stifled. HAPPY Listening!
[www.abc.net.au]
[www.abc.net.au]

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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You can hire Bertolucci and John Williams for Wai Lana’s music video, no way, she could ever be Julie Andrews.

But that’s not the problem. The fact that it’s wrong or offensive for the devotees to say or tell her what she really is as a singer. Pity the children too. When they grow up to find the videos on Youtube … What the F--k! May the wrath of God do not befall on whoever listens to that shite.


Finally, somebody brave enough to dare contest Tulsi’s seat in November, and asked some tough questions too.

Who Does Tulsi Gabbard Represent?
[www.huffingtonpost.com]

Four Responses to a Tulsi Gabbard Supporter
[www.huffingtonpost.com]

Shay Chan Hodges

Re: How to ID a bad situation and either avoid it or get out quickly

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I understand your point about having discernment and being aware of red flags. As part of my own process of reconciling my time in a cult, I had to consider why I first joined. For me, I was vulnerable and not well informed. I know that going forward, whether in work settings or in any area of my life, I need to have a healthy level of skepticism, lots of critical thinking and research red flags that people have pointed out before me.

Thanks for posting from the article. Looks like a good read!

Cheers, Ash.

Re: Eric Allen Bell

The Modern God Man Business Model*Editorial from The Hindu

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(Corboy commentary)

Amma and these other Godmen/women are beneficiaries of the corrupt politics in India today.

These gurus control thousands of voters and staggering sums of money. These gurus and their senior advisors are intimately connected to India's corrupt political
scene.


This editorial from the Hindu given below, is lengthy, thoughtful and deserves to be read in full.

(Some of the quotations selected for this message board post have been
quoted out of the order given by the original article -- C)


The ambiguities of gurudom The Hindu, June 8th 2016 by Meera Chandohi

Full text here [www.thehindu.com]


Quote

There was a time when statesmen like Jawaharlal Nehru believed that religion was dangerous because it convinced followers that hunger, filth and misery were their natural lot. Today god-men, accomplished practitioners of the art of politics, wield considerable power and political clout. But they wilfully overlook, and thereby sanction misery, hunger and filth.

Consider the paradoxes of this rapidly growing phenomenon. Men of god are expected to be renouncers. New-age gurus dress in flashy apparel, travel in luxurious private planes, host celebrations attended by pomp and splendour, and endeavour to arouse shock and awe among devotees. Ministers, Supreme Court judges, high-ranking bureaucrats, police officers, corporate honchos, and media personalities genuflect at the feet of self-styled gurus. Never have religious leaders fetched such unthinking obeisance, and untrammelled power as they do today. It is not surprising that they have neither time nor inclination to do something about the ills of our society.

Right up till the turn of the twentieth century, a number of religious leaders driven by the quest for a moral order, and fired by the belief that untouchability was a later appendage to Hinduism, tried to retrieve the spiritual essence of the religion.

Over the millennia, others threw up their metaphorical hands in despair, broke away and established new religions — Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism. Hinduism, smudged deeply by social exclusion, became the object of struggle, the target of social reform movements, and often the butt of ridicule

Do we see any of this questioning by cults today?

o we see any of this questioning by cults today? Perhaps not. Self-styled gurus can hardly launch a critique of a system of which they are the beneficiaries.

When the ‘spiritual’ leader of the infamous Swadheen Bharat Subhas Sena, Jai Gurudev, died in 2012, he reportedly left property and land worth Rs.12,000 crore, a school, a petrol pump, a temple that secured him immortality, ashrams, assets, and luxury cars.

Hinduism is a religion that teaches detachment; ironically, leaders of cults are passionately attached to worldly possessions, power and pelf. Their power is on public display.

Certainly, Indians have bowed their foreheads before gurus, renouncers, holy men, savants and peripatetic sadhus since time immemorial. But these transactions between believers and faith leaders were private, confidential and sacrosanct. These days transactions are public affairs; conspicuously orchestrated mega-events are televised and breathlessly consumed by a global constituency.

Within the tradition, the guru spent many years mastering philosophical knowledge because his role was that of a medium between individuals and the divine. He himself was never the divine. Yet access to the spiritual leader was restricted through elaborate rituals of exclusion of castes and often women.[/quote]
.....

From the sixth to the sixteenth century the Bhakti movement launched a powerful attack on caste-based discrimination in Hinduism. Till today the subversive poetry authored by Kabir is remembered, recited and sung. “Pandit,” he addressed the Brahmin, “look in your heart to know. Tell me how untouchability was born — untouchability is what you made so.”
[/quote]

The author suggests that in old India, gurus had relatively few disciples
and that access to them was limited.

Some of the most celebrated of these earlier gurus challenged caste discrimination.

Today, mass access to God men and God women in which the guru is center stage
of a public event with an audience of thousands has tranformed these Godmen and women into political players and power brokers. When a guru has not a few disciples, as the old gurus did, but has thousands of adorers, this guru becomes
custodian of a block of potential voters, someone to be courted by politicians.

Corruption becomes inevitable.

If you give money to Amma or any of these cast of thousands gurus, you are giving
financial support to political corruption that is tearing India apart.

Never mind if it makes you feel blissful.

Your bliss is built on the backs of thousands who suffer in silence and in poverty while Amma and her relatives and political cronies grow fat, send their children
to elite schools, build marble palaces for themselves and purchase real estate
in London, Paris, Switzerland and the USA.

Re: Eric Allen Bell

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Well the plot thickens. As I was trying to get in touch with people who I knew once followed Eric Allen Bell, I found one who still does. He emailed me back and he gave me his permission to post what he had to say. I'm not going to use his name, but here is what he had to say:

Seeing is believing. And feeling is believing. But knowing is knowing. When you find someone who knows, but you don't know, you put your faith in that person, until you know. Eric knows and it is evident to anyone who is ready to see. So I put my faith in him until I could see some of what he sees.

Over the past few years I have become able to see and know because of Eric. He has shown me how to read minds. He has shown me how to make people see things that are not there and how to make people not see things that are there.

Eric has shown me how to levitate. I can make my body lift up simply by using my mind and chanting a special mantra given to me by my Master, Eric.

Eric has shown me the lie that is religion and how organized religion exists to prevent you from truly knowing God. I know God through Eric because Eric is a representative of God. He is an extension of God. He is the embodiment of God. And in time I will be God Realized, if I continue to follow Eric. And then I will be God as well.

Every great sage and seer has been persecuted and misunderstood during their time. Eric was put on this world as an evolved soul because he chose to come down and show us the way to salvation. If you put your faith in Eric you will find the God inside of yourself.


Well folks, there you have it.

Re: Eric Allen Bell

Wai Lana Fan Video

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Sidesplitting acting by Rama Ranson.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Ha ha right on, Ian

I saw they uploaded this crazy interview with the cult queen herself, the couch she is sitting on looks like it could be at Chris Butler's Mokolua Drive residence. Overlooking the Kailua boat ramp?

https://youtu.be/FsqpzcL8DbE

Also brace yourself for Wai Lana's incoming cringe fest music video titled

ALIVE FOREVER

https://youtu.be/dBxdCsccM5w

Someone please tell me that Wai Lana is not going to be alive forever.

Fundraiser for Sue Deuber, partner of the late Sri Shim

Visions and energy experiences are neutral

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The apparently ability some pirs, sheikhs and munchies have to induce
stunning experiences of bliss, electricy, or in entire groups -
this appears to be a skill that anyone can do.

[forum.culteducation.com]

In the wrong hands, this can be done to get people addicted.

And, there is no such thing as a 'positive addiction'.

People often get involved with addictive drugs and alcohol because
of fragile or wounded selves.

The addictive trigger mechanism thus created by use of the soothing or
elevating drug gives the feeling of self cohesion, gives the feeling of
self maturation.

But feelings are not facts.

One has only the illusion of having been healed, backed up by one's own
neurochemistry.

This doesnt build character structure. Thus one remains dependant on the source of bliss, whether it be a guru, marijuana, gambling, alcohol, etc.

Quote

In some important ways, an Addiction Trigger Mechanism (ATM) mimics the functions of a self object in providing the self with an experience of relief
from dysphoric (painful feelings) states; however it is not a genuine self object.

(For)it (the addictive trigger mechanism) lacks the inherent capacity to add structure to and hence transform the self.

On the contrary, an ATM functions as an ersatz selfobject. As such it only mimics the structure building functions of genuine self objects. However, though lacking the power to transform the self, an ATM possesses the often deadly power to deform and in some cases, to destroy the self through
trapping the person in addictive ritual and habit.

Dissociative Anesthesia and the Transitional Selfobject in the Intersubjective Treatment of the Addictive Personality: Richard B Ullman and Harry Paul, page 112 of New Therapeutic Visons Progress in Self Psychology, The Analytic Press, 1992

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Rama ~ LOVE your parody of Namaste.

Wai's version kept going through my head like a saccharine, commercial jingle.

I had to listen to some opera to ban its ill effects.
Guaranteed, the following tunes are powerful antidotes to "Namaste" poisoning.

OK, not everyone likes opera, so skip it.
Or find something ripping that works for you
like Rama found in punk music.

But if you like opera, listen if you were assaulted with a Wai Lana tune:

Turandot.
Offenbach - Barcarolle , from 'The Tales of Hoffmann'
Flower duet - Anna Netrebko & Elina Garanca

I can't help but wonder if Wai Lana is positioning herself as the next "mother guru" based on that FAKE FAKE FAKE soulless interview. It sure appears so. Get ready to line up for her "blessings". What will she do? Hugging has been done. What will be her shtick?

It really bothered me that I could not get that stupid Namaste tune out of my head. Then I was listening to a Paul Joseph Watson video on why so much pop music sucks. Listen in around 7:32

The same ideas apply to the "soundtrack of their lives" in the Butler cult. Their music has not changed in 40 years. There are no musical innovators, even with once creative artists who joined the cult. Is it because this music and lyrics are so "spiritual" and uplifting? No. Brain research explains the reasons.

If you are still convinced that these mantras hold special powers and sway over the spirit, you should watch the movie Kumare, a feature documentary film about the time filmmaker Vikram Gandhi impersonated a fake guru and built a following of real people.

Quote
Paul Joseph Watson on The Truth About Popular Music

...lured into a bubble wrapped coma...

"...settling for increasingly dumbed down pop music. Because we are being brain washed into liking songs that we would usually hate as a result of the simple trick of repeated exposure.

Studies of the brain show that our reward centers light up from hearing the same song over and over again...Record labels can make us embrace a form of musical Stockhom syndrome. By force feeding us in this way they can override our personal taste and we eventually give in. After all, everyone else likes it, so it must be good, right?

Pop music is the equivalent to junk food. It's quick, it's easy, it's all around us... the producers stick to the same cookie cutter recipe because it is what people have been indoctrinated to want to consume...

Music is something we carry with us. It is the soundtrack to our day. It determines our emotions. So as the world around us becomes more perilous and chaotic, we look to music for familiarity and reassurance... providing a kind of musical safe space for arrested development...everything is dumbed down, everything is made to sound the same. Originality is strangled.

Whereas, musicians used to be interesting people and have actual personality and that's where the authenticity of music came from. Now they are more akin to hand picked Stepford wives. None of it is real. None of it is authentic, but it is still popular because our entire generation has had it's brains rewired..."

In addition to the repetitive and melodious nature of mantras, coupled with a fantasy or myth that elevates an ordinary human to divine stature, you have a powerful method of capturing followers. So much so, you also have the power to crush both originality and dissidence.

So what's wrong with Namaste besides being crappy music? Who can argue about the good idea of Namaste. You can't. It pictures a world of respect without hate. But it is a gateway drug into a seriously flawed and secretive cult that is very difficult to leave. It fails to show the secret underbelly of the cult. It fails to reveal the destructive practices of Wai Lana's cult. There should be a WARNING label.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

The Fake, Coma Inducing, Stepford Wives Anthem "Namaste"

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Sorry, I'm really pissed off today at this Namaste thing.

So it's been an awful week.
Two ass hat Islamic fanatics dressed up as Orthodox Jews killed 4 people and wounded 20 in a nice out door restaurant in Tel Aviv. Lives forever changed. It could have been me.

50 killed in a shooting at Florida nightclub in possible act of Islamic terror. It could have been a dear friend. Happy Ramadan.

Fucking religious fanatics. Fucking politicians that do all the wrong things.

It makes me even more pissed off at the fake, coma inducing, Stepford Wives anthem "Namaste", It makes me even more pissed off at the cult of Butler for all the 613 pages of reasons here.

Yeah, Mr. Butler keep your followers deluded so you can bathe in their reflected light. I don't want to follow your religion. I don't want to chant your name and worship you. You are an art killer and a selfish person. You neutered every creative being, musician and artist in your cult. You break up families and produce this Namaste fake crap. You never treated your own followers with the same respect, except those you could use. Those that you favor are forever trapped in your mirror.

You call me a demon while all you do is take for yourself alone. Why do you hide?

"Let them all pass all their dirty remarks. There is one question I'd really like to ask...Is there a place for the hopeless sinner Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?" ~ Bob Marley

You will say it is their "karma" that Jews and gays or Yazidi girls were killed in the last few days. Meanwhile you cower in fear of microbes and old age.

Because Mr. Butler you got nothing to share like the following artists. You could not possibly produce a video with any one outside of your control. You are unable to truly work with a diverse population or produce a video of substance. Because it's all about you. That's disgusting. You can not deliver as long as you continue to live a lie. Wake up. Your woman can not sing. You live in a tin foil prison.

Better than "Namaste":

One Love

Matisyahu - One Day/No Woman No Cry

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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CULT OF BUTLER = CULT OF HATE

CULT OF BUTLER = CULT OF INTOLERANCE

CULT OF BUTLER = CULT OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM-in the making.... ??

Quote: “When asked if the FBI suspected the gunman might have had inclinations toward militant Islam, including a possible sympathy for Islamic State, Ronald Hopper, an assistant FBI agent in charge, told reporters: "We do have suggestions that the individual may have leanings toward that particular ideology. But right now we can't say definitively."

The FBI said it was still trying to pin down whether the mass shooting was a hate crime against gays or a terrorist act.”
End quote

[abcnews.go.com]

Another senseless killing of Gays.
It doesn’t matter from whence the arrows of hate came from, these people have been murdered due to hatred, intolerance & fanaticism of one form or another

And Butler, along with his cult, hates Gays, we have already established this fact. And some of us have experienced this hate and intolerance personally.

And there sits Butler, dispensing his “wisdom” and more importantly his HATRED
AND INTOLERANCE.

This is what must be stopped, this propensity for hatred and intolerance,not only in Kailua but in our own neighborhoods as well.


BY RE-ELECTING A PERSON TO CONGRESS, A PERSON WHO SHARES THESE HATEFUL BELIEFS, HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE GOOD FOR THIS COUNTRY?

Butler and his political co-conspirator, Tulsi Gabbard, must go.
Remember, voters of Hawaii, Tulsi has aligned herself with a virulent anti-Muslim leader of India, part of a political party that has espoused major anti-Muslim rhetoric. These people give Tulsi money.

[www.alternet.org]

Well, of course they do, birds of a feather and all that rot.

Yes Vera, all these senseless deaths due to hatred and intolerance, pisses me off too.

Let's keep things in perspective.

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Let's keep things in perspective. There is a profound difference between the ideology of ISIS and Butler's cult. There is no comparison. It does matter who is doing the actual killing. There is a big difference between a self limiting cold virus and a deadly, flesh eating bacteria.

The Alternet piece was political and had no relation to Tulsi Gabbard's affiliation with the cult of Butler. In fact, there is no mention of the cult.

These articles that attack Tulsi for political reasons rather than for cult reasons miss the mark as far as this forum is concerned. They still avoid the elephant in the room which is her affiliation with the cult of Butler and how this informs her leadership. But even in her most virulent, anti-gay period, Tulsi never called for the killing of the LGBT population.

But we know very well how Butler's hate mongering towards homosexuality has affected young followers in his schools.

A cult is exposed by their actions and not their beliefs. I don't see Tulsi as a hate monger by her actions.

Tulsi takes donations from foreign governments like India. That makes Tulsi a typical politician and proves nothing about the cult. I suppose you could say she is pushing the Hindu agenda, but in reality it is an economic/political one. Not sure if anyone has noticed how much the Bushes, Obama, and the Clintons have all accepted money from India and other despotic foreign nations.

Here are the facts: Tulsi grew up in the Butler cult and has misled the public about her true affiliation, either by ommission or misdirection. Tulsi's staff and P.R. machine are known cult members. She married into the cult. The cult supports her. The important question is what is she required to do for them in return and if these favors are detrimental to the United States and her constituents?

I happen to like the fact that Tulsi stood up to those war-mongering Dems and Debbie Wasserman Shultz - all of whom are the flip side of the same neo-con Republican coin. I like that Tulsi took a political hit to work for Bernie Sanders. I like that she chose to attend a humanist conference. In case no one was paying attention, our government armed ISIS and has been a violent interventionist (for profit) for decades regardless of which party is in control. J'Accuse! WikiLeaks Founder Assange Claims Clinton is a Warmonger

Back on topic. Let's keep things in perspective. Our credibility is at stake if we exaggerate or do not back up our anti-Butler arguments with facts or connect the dots acurately. There are still more questions than answers at this point regarding Tulsi. Just how far does Butler's undue influence go? What if Tulsi gets on the correct side of things in spite of the cult?

My personal opinion is that this cult is not interested in violence but profit. Butler has discovered a good way to acquire wealth and have fun through politics. Have the Gabbards been involved in illegal activities such as insider trading to serve their guru? That is an important question. Is Tulsi's sincerity and ability to think critically questionable due to her cult affiliation? If so, in what ways? How can we prove this?

Have any of the Butler follower politicians been involved in drug money laundering or other illegal activities? Have any labor laws been broken from the use of children and free labor? What about tax evasion? Have Tulsi's and SOI's tax returns been sufficiently scrutinized?

Was Tulsi's silence on the Sri Shim death (along with her father's) due to their cult ties? Did she neglect her duty as a Congresswoman in this case? This certainly appears to be unethical and evidence of cult tampering. This is a hugely under-reported story.

But her aggressive questioning of John Kerry, asking that radical Islam be acknowledged, meeting with India's Modi, taking donations from lobbyists, attacking online gambling (which destroys lives and targets youngsters), or being insubordinate to Debbie Wasserman Shultz are political issues, not cult issues. Is she a virulent hate monger against LGBT or Muslims? No, there is no evidence. In fact, she argued against more interventionists wars, especially carte blanche ones.

I agree with Ian that it's a good thing that Tulsi is rubbing shoulders with some fine, non-cult folks. Maybe something good will come of it.

Does this make me a cult apologist for which some will claim and attack me on and off the forum? Not at all. Let's just be more credible in our arguments.

In the meantime, until some of these questions can be answered, Butler remains the Head of the Snake.
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