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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

June 13, 2016, 1:58 am
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There’s only one perspective: The end justifies the means.

Speaking of unethical, Tulsi has taken the mayavadis, the ISKCONs, the political left, and lately the atheists as bedfellows. I’ve yet to see her on the float with the gays and lesbians during Pride Parade. It’s coming.

These are all diametrically opposed to Krishna theology, which, by their tenets, she should be condemned for hell for such offenses. This is like O.J. Simpson, appealing to the public to find the real killer.

The fact that followers will keep a blind eye to drug smuggling and suppression of information where a notable Hawaiian needlessly died, the above are all necessary steps and distractions to hide the fact that she is a member of an absolutist cult. So far, she has been very successful in avoiding the truth radar because our polite society would rather stay away from the topic of religion. People do not understand that she cannot be separated from the core values of the cult. That is her fundamental makeup and foundational truth. To fully understand Tulsi, one must understand her upbringing and core belief. There’s no way around that. Everything else is a smokescreen.

What ultimately is the end? Krishna willing, the Presidency of the United States, the sole superpower on Earth. Why the need for such political power? For a seemingly insignificant religious cult from Hawaii, and a failed religious leader? The fact that they have this grand ambition, who knows? The fact is, Jagad Screwball is … er … a screwball. It’s like handing a torch to a pyromaniac. Only crazy people will worship a flawed godman, and any godman is a threat to a free and open society, period.
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

June 13, 2016, 8:37 pm
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That Wai Lana video interview—aside from being staged, is also reflective of much of what is happening in the "krishna" groups worldwide. Again—I reiterate, the bhakti cults were always a small—rather private affair, traditionally, historically, as well as in it's ritualistic expression. Now, we have Facebook gurus giving their memes advice online, surfer sanyassis posing with movie stars, guru's making viral videos and pushing their personality cult worship of certain members and not others. Butler has built up Wai lana as the SIF brand. She's a product they can sell and use to attract people to their group of naive idealism and, well, idiocy.

They did the same with Tulsi—they worked hard to build up the image of a warrior goddess of sorts—a modern day Arjuna—conflicted by the "cost of war", yet finding solace in the message of gita/krishna. It's fascinating to watch from the sidelines.

Within SIF, you are really not seeing much preaching going on about chaitanya, radha krishna and various core aspects of gaudiya vaishnavism—instead it's more about samkhya and yoga and a more universal concept of a krishna, christ-like personality—sitting on a rock with his arm around a deer—peaceful and pensive.

No mention is there about the true goal of the devotees to go to an eternal heaven where they dance as 14 year old village girls with the playboy-god krishna. Why is that? This is obviously the goal of gaudiya philosophy and the pinnacle of their practice.

They went from Hare Krishna, to Haribol and finally to "Namaste"—a universal hindu greeting. What's next? Will the butler cult appropriate "Aloha" as the official SIF "phrase". Tulsi sure is drilling it in her campaign.

I wonder what new SIF followers are told about their founding guru, Chris Butler, AKA, JAGAD GURU, SIDDHASWARUPANANDA PARAMAHAMSA SRILA PRABHUPADA? I know when we were young we were told that Butler was getting sicker and sicker on account of his "disciples offenses". This type of point is very commonly drilled into devotees minds in all the krishna cults. Bhaktivedanta pushed this idea and even at his passing suggested that people had poisoned him. Devotees literally walk on eggshells thinking that if they don't chant 16 rounds they are making their guru suffer, or that if their mind drifts while they chant they are somehow committing offenses and unable to taste the "nectar" of the holy name.

The vedic works as well as more contemporary works of various acharyas stipulate literally hundreds of rules and regulations and offenses you can make—that thwart you from achieving the "goal". Meanwhile, the sciprtures state that you can chant accidentally or even in jest and still achieve pure love of god. Devotees go year after year banging away on their drums and beads experiencing nothing more than the pleasure of hearing music and enjoying a tune and community/group bonding. But they try to convince themselves it's some sort of higher power and bliss—a merciful gesture of their guru and god.

I see countless gurus making up their own things as they go along—to justify what they are doing. If there is one thing that these gurus are, it's expert politicians. If something sounds off—they have a verse to support it. If something seems odd—there is an injunction for that. If things seem forced or fake—you must be offensive/you are the problem—not the process or path. It's a life of constant paranoia and fretting. It's no wonder at the end of the day most of these gurus just throw their hands up and just say: Chant and be happy. And boy are their disciples glad to hear it! Screw the scriptural injections and rules and regulations—lets just chant and be happy. Maybe we can smoke a reefer afterwards and catch a wave with gurudev afterwards. I'll make sure to take lots of pictures and post them on the cult FB page so we can get some likes from all the prabhus.

The question still remains: What business do gaudiya vaishnava gurus have building huge temples, initiating thousands of followers, printing thousands of books, surfing, teaching yoga postures, changing traditional mantras, entering into money ventures, running schools for kids, associating with drug smugglers and politicians, appointing successors, being on Facebook, twitter, youtube and other places? The answer is they don't. At best, according to their own traditions—they are to live in small groups, accept not many disciples, and live silently and peacefully in the association of their guru, begging door to door. Karma yoga and kriya and janan have no real place in gaudiya vaishnavism. At least not for the long haul and certainly not as a primary preaching point.

There is an implied arrogance and lack of any humility in their totalitarian approach. They feel that their way is THE way for all humanity and this is foolish and has ramifications that go deep. We live in confusing times but nonetheless we have progressed in our understanding of various concepts and ideas. Believing in 4 armed gods, elephant gods and half man half lion gods and lewd cowherd boy gods as "absolute" and perfect conceptions of divinity—or as divinity at all—is crippling to the mind of any mildly intelligent person. Talk about no credibility. I'm not surprised many modern day krishna cults end up focusing more on the physical yoga, meditation and "Namaste" as the main offerings of their quasi hindu love cults. Or, that their groups have effectively stopped growing and are dependent on keeping existing members and indoctrinating kids born into the cult as a method of growing their numbers (or going to third world countries or places that are ripe for the taking like Russia—needless to say these ventures require huge amounts of money to make the temples appealing and the food tasty—lord knows the philosophy and stories alone ain't cutting it. It's timer like this where yoga and guitars come in handy). No forward thinking modern mind would ever go to a Ratha Yatra festival looking to gain much more than some eclectic chanting and dancing and free vegetarian food. Likewise, a person going to a SIF center is not going to leave with anything more substantial than going to a run of the mill yoga class.

The video of way lana's interview is of comic proportions. It's like something off an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm. The woman seems high on pills and fake as she rambles off in arrogance the various countries that have somehow reacted positively to her cheesy song. It's difficult to sit through the video and not crack up at how awfully silly and juvenile it all is. Gosh—even a child would find it humorously pathetic. It has little more social import and value then watching an episode of Teletubbies or Barney the Dinosaur.

All this aside: [nirmukta.com]

And many more great articles on there about the Gita and other frustrating upanishadic texts.

Now, I want everyone to visualize Jiva Goswami dressed in flowing yoga pants (or jeans and a t-shirt) doing downward dog while saying "Namaste!". Later that day he'd go and catch some waves with the rest of the 6 goswamis and wind up his afternoon bhajan with some quality Facebook posts for his thousand of worldwide followers.

Namaste.
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In spite of my rant, I am actually optimistic. I have not drunk the Toolsee Koolaid nor is this an Aloha Girl apology

June 14, 2016, 7:45 am
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STELLAR essay Ian ~ Really great. People seriously considering joining up with Butler's group can gain a lot of important information and insight here.

What is difficult for people, and which puts everyone in grave danger, is our inability to distinguish between cults and a religion or an innocuous belief system. When cults hide behind freedom of religion, we must show evidence of harm. This is not easy. Most people are unaware of how cults operate. They don't recognize mind control and undue influence.

Unfortunately, we fail miserably at defending our own societal virtues while protecting the rights of others. For example, in facing Islamic terrorism, we bend over backwards to rationalize and apologize for it. If we can't even connect the most horrific crimes to Islamic influence, what makes us think we can connect Tulsi with slave labor, money laundering, parent alienation, and homophobia to the Butler cult?

"Lone wolves commit the atrocities, not Islam."
“Lone devotees commit crimes, not Butlerism.”

Dharmabum, we are unable to clear their smoke screens without ample proof. Even then, in the name of political correctness, we are not allowed to blame a religion or one's core beliefs. But we can condemn undesirable or illegal actions. We have to prove that destructive actions are the results of Tulsi's core beliefs. To say she is disingenuous is not enough. To say her guru wants one of his followers to win the Presidency and impose a “Butler Sharia Law” is not enough. We need direct evidence.

We are discouraged from blaming radical Islam for some of the world's most unspeakable violence done under its banner. We risk being called bigots and racists if we do. We blame the tools of violence rather than the religion that encouraged it. Can we really accuse the gun, the knife, the roof when they shoot, behead or lob gay people off buildings? We can and do criticize these abhorrent actions, but are not allowed to criticize the belief that inspired it. If we cannot even mention the word Islam in connection to Orlando, what makes one think that we can mention Vaishnavism in connection to the parental neglect and drug running of a Butler disciple?

We say the majority of Muslims are good and peaceful people, which is true. This argument can be used by the Butlerites. Without exception, all of the exers I have interviewed will confirm that most of the followers are really nice, peaceful and idealistic folks.


Our task is to educate and demonstrate how Butler's cult activities are dangerous and destructive. We have 613 pages of documents, testimony, and opinions on the dangers of Butler’s cult. Still, Alternet and the mainstream media have zero interest in Tulsi's affiliation. No one wants to touch that one... or believe it.


What about Tulsi's silence on the Sri Shim case? We counted on the people of Kailua to call foul. What happened? Was Tulsi and Papa Gabbard’s silence due to their cult ties? Did Tulsi neglect her duty as a Congresswoman in this case? Was there evidence of cult tampering? Or did they really get their man Sai Hansen, albeit with sloppy police work?


What about the overt cult nepotism regarding Tulsi’s staff? Why don’t people protest? Tulsi has a strange "Proteczia"*. Was she not vetted by Congress, Sanders, the feminists, the LGBT community, or the humanists? What activities has she done that have promoted a cult agenda in detriment to her constituents? It was pointed out that she supports many things that diverge from gaudiya Vaishnavism. See Ian’s post. Is this their Manchurian Candidate strategy? To most people this sounds paranoid and whacko. The subtleties of Vaishnavism are either incomprehensible or uninteresting to a typical voter.

I am thoroughly disgusted in the Hawaiian media and law enforcement for not investigating this cult more closely. I suspect that they are bought and sold by their “Local Guru Boy Does Good” Chris Butler. And as I have written about before, never underestimate the power of “Ohana”* in Hawaii.

I am gravely disappointed in all of the closet Butler dissidents and cult kids refusing to come forward. It’s understandable, but not excusable.

Here is another problem. The followers always take the fall and nothing is in Chris Butler's name to implicate him.


But what if Tulsi is politically congruent with party leaders and voters? What if she allies herself to policies and politicians for the good of the country in spite of her cult upbringing? What if, even under the direction of Butler, she comes out on the right side of things? Would it be right to tear her down because she was raised in a cult? Would this make me a bigot? This is an honest question I have to ask myself.

They say that countries are never friends. There are only allies and enemies. Sometimes frenemies work together for the greater good. In my opinion, in 2013 Tulsi proved to be on the right side of history when she spoke out against military intervention in Syria and Libya. She stood up to Secretary of State John Kerry and General Martin Dempsey, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, during a House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing. She has spoken out against TTP and favored the labeling of GMO’s. She took a political risk to help Bernie Sanders. You may not agree, but these are significant things.

I know Henry, you think I have drunk the "Toolsee Koolaid", but I challenge that idea. We can argue off the forum.


Tulsi is not responsible for the devotee parents who neglected their children medically or emotionally. She was a baby and young child during the drug scandals. True, she was raised an elite in the cult, carefully groomed, and kept far from the common devotees. The fact remains that no one really cares if you bow down towards Mecca or a pathetic, balding guru. You have to demonstrate actual harm. Actions are more meaningful than words or beliefs.



In spite of my depressing rant here, I am actually optimistic. What this website and forum does best is to inform the public about how cults operate, how they differ from safe groups, why they are dangerous, and how to get out. I believe that all of our efforts here are preventing people from joining the Butler cult and helping people escape.



*Proteczia. Sometimes called “Vitamin P”, is a Russian word that means “protection.” Protection from the “system” that allows you to bypass bureaucracy, rules, regulations, salary levels, prison, and can even open doors of opportunity – financial, military, government, commercial and institutional. It exists in Hawaii as part of the Ohana system and Aloha. This explains a lot of how Butler’s cult and his politician followers have survived.
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

June 14, 2016, 9:16 am
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Vera City has told us about "Protezia".

Same thing exists in India - or at least in Mumbai. It is called "Powertoni"

[www.google.com]

The government fails to serve its citizens. To get anything done Indians must get help from someone who has "Powertoni" - someone who has power, money, influence, leverage with insider politics.

And, readers, in India the big name gurus with thousands of disciples are now
very much of this world They, along with gang leaders and thug politicians, these gurus now have have "powertoni"

A guru with thousands of "fans" who assemble in vast assemblies -- that guru becomes part of India's corrupt government because that kind of "rock star" guru controls that many potential voters. All the money that the disciples bring in means the guru must get protection from someone with gun men.

When you are known to have lots of money and lots of disciples, you are subjected to threats from various gangs. So.. you need to select one gang powerful enough to protect you from others.

This is discussed in another here.

Another thought:

It is a very short jump from fearing for someone's welfare to fearing that same person.

If you are taught to fear that could easily get sick, you easily slide into dearing you will do anything or think a thought that might 'make' that person sick.

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I know when we were young we were told that Butler was getting sicker and sicker on account of his "disciples offenses". This type of point is very commonly drilled into devotees minds in all the krishna cults. Bhaktivedanta pushed this idea and even at his passing suggested that people had poisoned him. Devotees literally walk on eggshells thinking that if they don't chant 16 rounds they are making their guru suffer

Yet another guilt trip that gurus foist upon their followers.

The guru (or his adoring disciples) claim that the guru is so holy that
he or she attracts demonic influences or is especially subject to
astral attack - whatever that means.

Therefore the guru's nasty behavior, drunkenness, etc, the guru's reclusiveness in a germ free house are claimed to be the result of
attack from malign forces in the cosmos, or perhaps bad energy that
has condensed from the many bad thoughts or neglectful behaviors of
disciples.

It is no different from a controlling relative who claims that
his or her drinking problem is caused by people who "just do not understand."
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Kurt Butler is at it again!

June 14, 2016, 10:17 am
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Mind reading is actually mundane research

June 14, 2016, 10:26 am
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"Mind reading", an ability credited to many pirs, babas, sheikhs as being proof of their special link to G-D may be much more mundane than that.

A learned skill set.

So many of us crave to be known and understood. Plays right in.

Ditto for astrologers.

[scottnevinssuicide.wordpress.com]

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The cold reading, at its best, provides the client with a character assessment that is uniquely tailored to fit him or her. The reader begins with the same assumptions that guide the psychological reader who relies on the stock spiel. These assumptions are (1) that we all are basically more alike than different; (2) that our problems are generated by the same major transitions of birth, puberty, work, marriage, children, old age, and death; (3) that, with the exception of curiosity seekers and troublemakers, people come to a character reader because they need someone to listen to their conflicts involving love, money, and health.

The cold reader goes beyond these common denominators by gathering as much additional information about the client as possible.

Sometimes such information is obtained in advance of the reading. If the reading is through appointment, the reader can use directories and other sources to gather information.

When the client enters the consulting room, an assistant can examine the coat left behind (and often the purse as well) for papers, notes, labels, and other such cues about socioeconomic status, and so on.

Most cold readers, however do not need such advance information. Geronda Joseph (formerly Ioannis Voutsas, now Abbot and father-Confessor at St. Nektarios Monastery, Roscoe, NY).

The cold reader basically relies on a good memory and acute observation. The client is carefully studied.

The clothing- for example, style, neatness, cost, age- provides a host of cues for helping the reader make shrewd guesses about socioeconomic level, conservatism or extroversion, and other characteristics. The client’s physical features–weight, posture, looks, eyes, and hands provide further cues.

The hands are especially revealing to the good reader. The manner of speech, use of grammar, gestures, and eye contact are also good sources.

To the good reader the huge amount of information coming from an initial sizing-up of the client greatly narrows the possible categories into which he classifies clients. His knowledge of actual and statistical data about various subcultures in the population already provides him the basis for making an uncanny and strikingly accurate assessment of the client.
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The Guy Needs Psychiatric Help

June 14, 2016, 3:18 pm
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Re: In spite of my rant, I am actually optimistic. I have not drunk the Toolsee Koolaid nor is this an Aloha Girl apology

June 14, 2016, 8:17 pm
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Wouldn’t it be nice if Tulsi, once and for all, acknowledge that she is affiliated with the Science of Identity Institute. There really is nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to his/her own belief. What the constitution is merely demanding is that there should be a separation between state politics and religion. In fact, it is a sign of maturity for a politician or anybody to conduct earthly affairs without the irrational influences of religious tenets.

She has done many seemingly “principled” decisions in life and politics that are laudable yet controversial. There are thousands upon thousands of war veterans who had seen actions a lot way more than Tulsi, yet only she who could claim to be an expert or knowledgeable in Foreign Affairs due to her service; she fans fear for nuclear war and is very demagoguery about the theological aspect of terrorism.

It is disconcerting with Tulsi’s because her guru does not believe in the separation between the church and the state. She has continually exhibited her devotion to the guru and the movement; she is very forthright with her admiration for India’s controversial leader, Narendra Modi; she has exhibited her biased against Muslims, particularly Syrian refugees; her voting record does not reflect clearly a progressive view, yet hobnobbed with the humanist movement; and she was conspicuously silent in the death of Sri Shim, when she could have just easily dispelled the fear by simply showing up, but instead, stubbornly chose to ride waves with the cult.

To not provide clarity on this, suspicion and doubts remain. To be fair, this applies to all, especially to those seeking powers that affect lives. JFK and Romney were very explicit that their chosen faiths will not interfere with their politics, and even Barack Obama was forced to disavow association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright when the preacher’s incendiary ranting surfaced online. As she inches her way in close to the top prize, I think it’s just fair to expect the same standard applies to Tulsi.

To make the long argument short, we don’t have the bloody knife and the gloves do not exactly fit. All we have is circumstantial evidence. A seemingly avoidable deception is waiting to happen, but is only discernable by us ex-members that our polite society would not even bat an eye on, and we know we can’t leave that in the hands of the judges. To those in the know, ex-members that chose to remain silent instead, to Shyam Dodge and the likes, fuck you all!
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

June 15, 2016, 9:20 am
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Dharmabum, ex members of SIF are unlikely to come forward and speak if
we on this discussion threat use harsh language.

They already live in fear. Last thing needed is for this discussion thread to
be like a hornet's nest.

We can't force any bird to fly before it has grown its full set of flight feathers.

Each of us is different.

And once out of SIF, each newly freed person needs some privacy in which to develop a career, find supportive friends and learn to function in an open
society. It can take a long time before each has the energy to select
a computer name and contribute to this or another discussion of Butler's cult.

And the person also may need time to figure out how to write in such a way that he or she cannot be identified, tracked down and harassed by Butler loyalists.

Last thing needed is for any of us to pressure former members to contribute here before they feel ready to do so.

Ex members may prefer to select their own confidantes; this takes time.
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Re: In spite of my rant, I am actually optimistic. I have not drunk the Toolsee Koolaid nor is this an Aloha Girl apology

June 15, 2016, 10:15 am
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dharmabum:

I am very sorry for anyone that was hurt and/or victimized by Chris Butler and his group.

But please try to avoid personal attacks.

Criticism is OK.

But please be circumspect about this.
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

June 15, 2016, 7:40 pm
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All my childhood friends and the dudes I went to school with are, within reason, happy where they are. Some have left the cult. Others believe in the myths and gods and gurus but have next to no day to day involvement with the cult and it's practices. The few—very small, fragmented mount that do, are akin to the average person born into christianity and so forth. Christians who choose to stop going to church or bible study or who are on the fence about christianity are perhaps looked upon as unfortunate or sinful by their fanatical brethren, but for the most part—everyone goes about life in a similar fashion: Work, family etc. We cannot fault anyone who does not wish to get involved with the thankless and often futile work of exposing the cult and it's practices and guru. Certainly there is more to life than doing so and from what I see—SIF spend more time and energy on teaching simple mantra meditation and yoga and vegetarianism then they do on asking new recruits to serve "Jagged Guru" in any legitimate way.

Sam goes for Tusli—she is not pushing any "butler" agenda—at least not in anyway that has far reaching impact compared to say, Trump or some other politicians. Is she all over the place? Sure—isn't that what politics is about?

Not much more can be said about this cult. It's a gateway cult to the larger krishna cults out there at worst and it's a closed circuit cult with little real reach and power beyond it's small group of followers at best. The few people in it are happy and don't see issue with it.

Coming forward for me was a personal choice based on the fact that I felt that it needed to be documented that Butler operated an illegal all boys school in the Philippines that I felt was damaging to some of us and ultimately did little in really educating us. I also wanted to confirm and shed light on other lesser know aspects of the cult: Butlers germaphobia, the harsh words to his devotees, the many lectures bashing homosexuality and his disciples, the obvious political ambitions and various other ego/money driven behaviors of butler and the cult.

My biggest agenda has always been to shed light on the fact that it's a india-centric religion and by far not a "Eternal Path" or Sanatana Dharma as it is often branded by krishna cults. I wanted to shed light on the mythology, origins, and history that I know that makes it clear to me that there is nothing "eternal" or "absolute" about this cult—or any for that matter. I have tried to shed light on the contradictions, myths, absurdities, rituals and so forth that make this a mind controlling group. I think it has it's place in as much as it is kept small and majority of folks approach it in a cultural context. If you get introduced to yoga and vegetarianism through groups like this, beware! That is not their final offering and goal in recruiting you. These groups do want your money, your time, your energy and worship of their guru and gods and their guarantee of "peace" and "love" is idealistic and heavily based on inapplicable myths and rituals that have been proven to have a profoundly dulling effect on the mind. They are not just peddling meditation and feel good ideas. Though they are not doing it with ill intent, nonetheless, people should be warned that it's more than meets the eye.

The politics of Tulsi are less threatening to me and ultimately I think people will vote for her if they align with some percentage of her views. I personally don't care if she reads gita and worships butler—if she can manage to do that and still go to Reason Rally and distance herself from bigoted religious idealism—that seems fine to me. I can't hope for much more from a politician.

The devotees worshiping Butler are entitled to do so and if it makIs them happy all power to them. My self appointed job is to shed light on what i know and be a voice of reason and support should someone feel as odd about it all as i did growing up. If you feel that your days in the cult are numbered—don't be afraid. Jump ship knowing there are many fast motorboats that can ferry you to safe shores. You need not dedicate your life to fantasy and myth. You need not follow some god-man that tells you tales of hope. You need not worship some blue god or pretend that some mantra you chant is "cleansing" you and helping you go to some abstract heaven. You can have a nice, simple, balanced life here, right now. You can adopt and practice many applicable ideas in your life to gain peace and acceptance of the world around you. We know enough as a society and thinking people to understand that while we cannot know everything, we know enough to not pretend that the cosmos was created by a 4-headed creator god and that as long as a guru has a brain and a body—they are just like you and me—flawed and human.

You do not need to feed your mind a continuous stream of fairytales and work your emotions up to a frenzy. The emotion you feel in your chanting is not much different than seeing a sentimental TV commercial or tear-jerking movie. The difference is that you would not perpetually subject your mind to such an experience. It's OK to feel sad and happy and experience the duality of existence without having to believe in mythology. It's not that the myths do not have a place. They do. But they are best understood symbolically and culturally. The thinkers of the past left us their observations and thoughts in story form to make it all more appealing to read and convey some philosophical ideas as well as impart to us the importance of a simple life of love and peace. And, to the people of the time—these were cool epics and stories to tell around a campfire and temple sermons. They captivated the masses as do stories nowadays.

This is my opinion and I know that many of my childhood friends and guys form the PI school share some of these views or have formed their own understanding and appreciation of their upbringing. They were not abused in the classic sense of the word and they have made peace with the parts that were absurd or confusing. They do not see the need to bang the drum any more than needed. I can appreciate that. I often feel the same. But every once in a while, I have some memory or something i do that I feel is directly resultant of my upbringing. And I detest it. In the least—I see it as having been planted in my mind by someone else—something unnatural or impractical or downright idiotic. It's those times that i feel most compelled to offer a hand and express my deep regret for the mental damage that being brought up in such a cult can result in. But I have to be realistic—it's my take and my opinion—at best. I can no more prove that a blue cowherd god is frolicking with young village girls in some eternal spiritual sky than disprove it. I go by several billion years of evolutionary hunch that it's complete BS. And i truly do feel that those who waste their time really believing in it are not experiencing reality. I value reality and I value the mind I have. I value evolution and I value where it has taken us and where it can take us. That future—for me—has no religion in it and certainly not cults. It is filled with peaceful people, but logical people. It is filled with love and devotion and servitude, but with no need to base that on a fantasy. It is filled with teachers and guides, but not with legions bowing to such folks—but simply being thankful and grateful to have the company of people who can impart some practical and applicable ideas—if they seem helpful in our life. And it's filled with politicians and people of power who have a deep compassion—not an agenda serving only a few select people. I think we are not too far off form this. But I do see cults like SIF and many krishna groups as a detriment to that happening. Although, I have to admit that it is gladdening to see many krishna youth not taking to the non-sense that the previous generation gobbled up at face value. There is more thinking and more questioning in this next generation and that seems to be steering some krishna leaders in a different direction. But at that point—the question remains: Why even continue to believe in your vedas and gods and gurus? You have already surpassed them in thinking by being a modern human. this is not arrogance or lack of humility. It's called evolution. Old ideas and archaic concepts need not dictate our destiny. They can inform and be a historical part of it—but they need not define us.
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Re: Warrior Sage?

June 16, 2016, 12:47 pm
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I know this is years later for an answer but I LOVE WARRIOR SAGE!!!
SATYEN and his wife Suzann are awesome. Yes most of the retreats cost money some are in the hundreds and some in the thousands and some are for the straight RICH!
They really are not much different then going to Anthony Robbins seminars to do fire walks or Date with Destiny just more intimate. There are meditations and they believe in plant based diets. They believe in living in truth and being your authentic self. Although you can join the "warrior sage family" it really is the same concept as keeping in touch with college friends of like minds. You do not live together and give all your money away. Oxox yes Sayten is awesome at martial arts and he keeps his body in healthy toned shape. You can see him in a new Hay House movie Abundance Code. 2016
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Re: Sogyal Lakar aka Rinpoche

June 17, 2016, 9:30 am
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A discussion that started some years ago but continues up to this year.

In the discussion thread a number of people describe having left Rigpa.

[www.thenakedmonk.com]

Often, Vajrayana loyalists (including the Dalai Lama) tell us
to observe a teacher for many years, 10 to 12 years, before deciding
whether the teacher has the character and wisdom needed to be one's
yoga/tantra guru.

The problem with this seeming reasonable advice is -- one must immerse oneself
in the ongoing life at dharma centers in order to conduct this years long
examination of one's prospective teacher.

During that time, you will most likely lose your objectivity, peer influence
and participation in rituals, classes and meditations will blunt your
critical thinking.

Other factors: Suppose this teacher is living a hidden life of debauchery?

Suppose that teacher is surrounded by a cadre of senior students who
stage manage appearances and hide the teacher's tantrums? This is
exactly the thing that goes on in families which hide the behavior
of someone who is alcoholic or addicted -- family secret stuff. Dharma
centers in which senior students cover for a tottering teacher, exert
peer pressure on the students to keep mum; this is devotional
codependance. Just like a secret ridden dysfunctional family.

Blech.

Unless you know the teacher's native language, you will be unable to
make sense of what the teacher actually says. Time spent learning that
language will immerse you further in the culture surrounding the teacher
and compromise your objectivity.

Many Tibetan teachers travel, and they often return to their native countries
in Asia. You have no way to learn how they behave when back home unless you
have the time and resources to travel there.

This advice to watch your teacher for several years before deciding
he is a true guru is, IMO, misleading at best, disingenuous at worst.

You'll spend those 12 years in the cultural and social milieu surrounding
your teacher.

You'll have to be polite and bow to the teacher, perhaps prostrate yourself.

Do enough prostrations, do enough chanting, while the teacher is high up on
a throne and while you are surrounded by scores of people doing the same
thing; you'll most likely lose your objectivity and lose ability
to assess your teacher with a discerning eye.
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Re: Eric Allen Bell

June 17, 2016, 6:27 pm
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I have gotten in touch with several people who have left Global One, all through one helpful person. There was someone else who offered information, but that information was not entirely right. I have someone who is willing to post on this site. She says that Eric Allen Bell possesses "psychic powers". I have asked her if she believes this and she says yes, but that he abuses those powers.

I for one do not believe in psychics. I know that EAB has been producing a documentary, which he has been working on for several years. I know that he used to do affiliate marketing for dating sites and psychic hotlines. But I am really interested to hear this person's account of what she believes to be actual psychic powers.

Others have simply called this mind control, a bit of smoke and mirrors. But I'm very curious to see what she posts. It is something that comes with with some of these cult leaders, is that they convince their followers that they have divine powers, sent from God or spirits.

This should be very interesting and revealing I'm sure.
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Countdown to Shark Feed. T minus 6 Days.

June 19, 2016, 10:17 am
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I can't find Kurt Butler's "suicide by shark" blog spot.
It's really not funny. Seriously, I hope he gets help before he acts out on his threats.

Here is a list of Chris Butler's brother Kurt Butler's blogs.

But found this curious: Deepak Chopra, Medical Messiah or Madman?

Quote

WWW.MadManChopra.blogspot.com Proof that the Indian-American icon of New Agers, Deepak Chopra, is either a psychopath (anti-social personality) or is utterly insane.

Wonder why he doesn't mention his own "god man" brother Chris?

He also has gone after health food fraud. Wonder why he never went after Down to Earth or Hesh Goldstein's radio show?

Perhaps he is serving his guru brother (like his devotee brother Bruce) by attacking the competition?
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Re: Countdown to Shark Feed. T minus 6 Days.

June 20, 2016, 6:16 am
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Hi Vera, someone just forwarded me the image of the Kurt Butler thing. I asked where they found it and they said it was on an image hosting site called www.mlkshk.com

I couldn't find it on there myself but this is where my friend found it.

I love your posts, hope you are well!
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Re: Countdown to Shark Feed. T minus 6 Days.

June 20, 2016, 6:24 am
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And seriously, Chris Butler Siddhaswarupananda the cult leader's crazy brother going out of his way to call out Deepak Chopra? Deepak fuckin destroys Chris Butler as a spiritual teacher. I guess they are rubbed a little wrong by the fact that Deepak Chopra is a spiritual teacher who demolishes Chris Butler's outdated late 70's bro science routines without even having to be an actual cult leader.

Don't fuck with those rims, dog, Deepak wears his speedboats and mansions on his face. Bling bling the spiritual gangsta. An actual Indian Hindu, too, imagine THAT! Absolutely SCANDALOUS!!!
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Re: Countdown to Shark Feed. T minus 6 Days.

June 20, 2016, 6:31 am
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Vera, love the INFOWARS links. I can't back Trump but I love INFOWARS. Been watching them for many years. Rob Dew! Chasing general Petraeus through the streets is just one of the gems on that channel.

https://youtu.be/mNmxbtWWOG0
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Re: Countdown to Shark Feed. T minus 6 Days.

June 21, 2016, 1:26 pm
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Wai Lana's horrific new vid. Any cult member cameos? Looks like a lot of actors. Maybe Wai Lana's Chinese relatives?

[youtu.be]

This is a version with seemingly unmoderated comments. People who probably know nothing about her were leaving funny comments like "ew"

So leave a zinger on this version ha ha
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

June 21, 2016, 3:01 pm
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Let us all take this moment to contemplate how fortunate we were to have had Mantra Electric to listen to growing up...
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