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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

April 18, 2016, 12:28 am
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Ian Koviak wrote:

And rest assured—these scriptures and so-called scientific texts were revised, added to, adjusted and misinterpreted countless times by countless people—for their agendas and personal convictions. Yes, people. Not gods, not angels, not some mystic saints with elephant gods writing with broken tusks. People. Writers, poets, logicians, artists, scientists and philosophers—over the course of many hundreds and thousands of years. There was no "revealed knowledge" that vyasa just wrote down (sorry, ganesh) in one fell swoop. In fact, much of the knowledge in various shastras and supplementary vedic texts were developed right in line with and at the same time as many other scientific and philosophical discoveries and contributions were being made globally. Not just in india. Mathematical concepts, writing, architecture, art, religion, etc—many of the major discoveries in these fields of knowledge were being shared and discovered by moving tribes, shifting and conquering dynasties and eventually via the written, documented word. It seems foolish to highlight india with the singular very biased aim of having people superstitiously be convinced that chanting hare krishna is the best thing ever or has any more potency than chanting or meditating on any phrase or sound that one associates with peace and tranquility. It's also not healthy to be so preoccupied with living a life of no stress and complete mental peace. It robs us of rich experiences and the ability to grow stronger and build our own authentic and personal view of reality. Artificially imposing a framework of thought and belief simply robs our mind and dulls it of it's ability to seek and learn and question and form real ideas based in reality—not fiction.


Cults in so many ways are similar to drugs. They both are capable of inducing our brains to produce dopamine to get that euphoric feeling. In time, it can get addicting.

I remember a scene in Conan the Barbarian when Ah-nold beheaded the Cult Leader finally, then threw the severed head down the temple steps, the crowd dispersed in the most poignant fashion, woke up from stupor, throwing down their torches and walking away in lines into the horizon.

I look forward to the day when children return to their families to rebuild lives, to recover quality time, to restore love, to seek their true potentials, and most of all to find God in the wider world than in a groupthink.
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Yoko and Wai Lana Comparisons

April 18, 2016, 1:55 am
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Ian and Henriji,

The comparison to Yoko has merit on a couple of counts. While no analogy is perfect, it is similar to how Yoko broke up the Beatles with her formidable influence over John. Just read Julian Lennon's and other accounts of how Yoko isolated John from family and friends. In the same way, Wai Lana seems to have taken over the direction of Mr. Butler's life into ultra weirdness, snobbery, and disenfranchisement from all but the most brainwashed followers.

Post Wai- tin foil and toe nail consumption ensued; along with extreme reclusiveness, fines for offenses, and exorbitant tithes. Before that he was more accessible and directly "jammed" you (insults and chastisements) with only his words. Before Wifey Wai, he never went on ski vacations, flew around on jets, or passed out toe nail clippings to eat. There was an exodus of some of his original followers after he married Wai due to the noticeable high weirdness.

But he was always paranoid and secretive with outsiders once he discovered that the world did not automatically buy into his messianic bullshit. He hated reporters for not recognizing his greatness as far back as when he called himself "Sai Young". So he withdrew into his little cult, erm, "spiritual path" that happens to believe in his infallibility.

He always enjoyed adulation, politics, free labor, and rich patrons. He always had people cooking and cleaning and providing clothing for him; it just got worse with Wai Lana. Before her, he did not need air purifying systems, aluminum foil lined walls, volumes of "Personal Care" directives, or non-disclosure agreements.

During the newspaper and Independents for Godly Government days Butler lived very simply on a cot with mosquito netting and in a room with one chair. He would sit on tatami mats on the floor reading books and newspapers and making notes for a lecture. There was no air conditioning on Maui or at Koolau on Kauai. It reminded followers of images of Gandhi or Bhaktivedanta in some humble hut in India. At the time he was portraying himself as a dispassionate celibate Saddhu or Saint.

It wasn't until after the first political campaign (1976), when Butler moved to Honolulu or L.A. to work on Kathy Hoshijo's cooking show and his failed music album, that he inhabited high rise apartments (allegedly with drug money). They were nothing extraordinary. Of course the rest of his disciples were sharing apartments, living in low income housing, or in cars. Many were on welfare. Only a few had their own businesses at the time. In California, he stayed at wealthy patron's homes.

So while he was always heading towards the "Super Materialist" good life at the expense of his followers, Wai Lana brought along the creepiest elements.

Here is another comparison to Yoko Ono. While John continued to make good music, some of the directions he went (under her influence) were embarrassing, narcissistic exhibitions. John Lennon Owned by Yoko Ono (OK, the commentator is not politically correct...but makes the point.)

And neither Yoko or Wai Lana can sing (or speak English clearly for that matter).
While Yoko's voice is like nails on a chalk board or something like what "skunk smell" would sound like,
Wai Lana will put you into a diabetic coma with sickeningly sweet auto-tuned resonances.

Trigger Warning for Sensitive Ears:

Yoko Ono sings We are All Water; Look at Me So Arty; I Rule John Lennon

Wai Lana sings Namaste; Look at Me So Spiritual; So Give Me All Your Money

Now back to fun with aluminum foil . . .
'Weird Al' Yankovic Music Video FOIL
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Once you start thinking, you'll realize you have been misled.

April 18, 2016, 4:51 am
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But seriously, for us to challenge the thinking of Rama's brother, Aloha girl, or other devotees sneaking a peek on this forum, it is very painful.

First, the aggressive defenses and "auto-tuned brains" full of thought stopping arguments come flying out like projectile vomiting. But when the arguments go up against the truth and the contradictions become apparent, the pain really starts.

The agony of waking up is just too much for most people. Butler banks on this.

But once you start thinking, you'll realize you have been misled.
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Congregation for the Light aka "The Light"

April 18, 2016, 11:28 am
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Hello. I am a reporter researching a group based in Murray Hill, New York, known as "Congregation for the Light" or simply as "The Light."

The New York Post wrote a story about the group in late 2014 and there were a few stories that piggy-backed off of that reporting, but I've seen little else.

There was also a blog where a self-proclaimed former member wrote about the blog.

I haven't been successful in reaching current or former members of the group. Any information that members of this forum might have would be a great help.

[Moderator note: Posting contact information is against the rules. There is a private messaging system attached to the board.]

Thanks,
Dan
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FOIL

April 18, 2016, 12:13 pm
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Wai Lana / Butler / Yoko

April 18, 2016, 1:17 pm
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It is as had previously stated with Yoko/Wai.
Way Looney merely fanned the all-ready existing flames.
She did escalate it to a new level of weirdness, but she found fertile soil.
Butler’s NARCISSISM was already firmly in place.

Regarding Yoko’s voice: true, when she sings, there is a great deal of dissonance- but that is her style/emotion.
I did get a chance to speak with her once back in New York.
Her voice was very much in keeping with someone who has learned English as a second language- heavily Japanese accented but it was a mellifluous and rather pleasant voice if I remember correctly.

Wai Lana- is a different kettle of fish entirely!
After listening to her speak, I do think she definitely has a speech impediment. There is something intrinsically wrong with the bio-mechanics of her mouth.
We know there is something intrinsically wrong with her mind, she has no soul,
and the vote has already been taken on her voice.

"Off with her head!” quoth the Red Queen.

Now IMAGINE this:

All you devbots, put down your tofu spoons and your ill-blessed mala beads.
Delete your Butler digitized sound bites into the “Trash".
KEEP YOUR HARD EARNED SALARIES.
Throw your cell-phones that Butler uses to enslave you as readily as steel hand cuffs into Pele’s mouth.




Regain your BRAIN!




Question everything!



And give Peace a chance..


There is a whole world out there- give yourselves a chance to find out
what has been kept from you all along.
Miracles do happen, just ask Julian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYQENKq9gIo]Miracle[/url]


Butler has 2 arms 2 legs and a wife.... just walk away and be FREE!
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Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

April 18, 2016, 3:17 pm
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Dharmabum, that is my hope too.

As a general rule of thumb, I am of the opinion that anyone who accepts somebody else's head at their feet and worship from them and service from them is a charlatan. Period. Being able to accept such worship necessitates a certain level paychopathic narcissism. It's got to be the furthest thing from humility and piety.

Time and again, I have seen these gurus and their organizations engage in underhanded methods making money, juvenile ways of disciplining their disciples, offering nothing in the way of practical and applicable day to day knowledge. They play up the pleasurable aspects of the religions Philosophies: dancing, eating, chanting, and now they dilute it further to include things that are completely westernized and make it appealing to the average youth. Call it rebranding.

I completely understand the reason for this. If one is to get very serious about the philosophy and start to explore the Disciplic succession and dive deep into the history of the tradition, they are very likely to come up to the surface with nothing short of a horror on their face.

I'm not saying that there's no room for spiritual teachers, or that people shouldn't be allowed to explore and enjoying whatever group makes them feel good. But the purpose of a forum like this is to open peoples eyes to the hoodwinking. And boy is there more than enough to go around.

Also, I firmly believe there is no absolute truth and reality. I think everyone in general feels that and understands that both rationally and instinctively. While there is much benefit to be had in various mindfulness practices and so forth, it's not beneficial to make the mental leap of trusting a tangible, perceivable reality, to all of a sudden believing in a fantastical metaphysical concept that really ends up only disassociating our mind and opening us up to potential BS. Once our reasoning faculties are softened we are less likely to see the gray areas of what we are being taught. Eventually we end up in the place where it's nearly impossible to separate fact from fiction.

If reason and logic no longer holds water in basic philosophical discourse and finds no place in Vedic mythology as a mechanism to at least act as symbolism for larger themes, then it should make it's way to the waste bin. What practical use and relevance does it pose to believe that a god walks on water, kills fantastical Demons and is an expert lover to 16108 queens? In a modern context, such stories fail to amuse as they once did in a bygone era. They are often full of contradictions and what can amount to nothing more than cheesy attempts to impress simple people.

Obviously there is the larger argument that these gods are very human in their representation. Man has modeled concepts of divinity riddled with base desires.

By definition, having desire necessitates having senses. If God is not human and is transcendental then why does he desire to create and to make things and ultimately to have us worship him and love him? They seem to be a very human concerns and involvements. And very conveniently, we are taught that this tiny little planet, is a perverted reflection of some sort of spiritual plane. Rubbish.

The Vedic literatures state that God is unknowable yet they spend a considerable amount of time trying to convince us that we can know him and have an authentic personal realization of him (i'm not sure if it's so relevant that it's a male or a female) They even go a step further and trying to convince us that specific pastimes actually took place or in someway are representative of God's thinking. Which, in modern context, unfortunately, makes him out to look like a complete idiot. Take for example the Bhagavad-Gita. The work itself is riddled with contradictions that never seem to make an effort to reconcile themselves.

The Gita speaks of selfless action and desireless performance of duty yet the contradiction lies in the very premise being motivated by the desire for liberation and freedom from samsara. Sounds pleasant on paper, but it holds no water.

While there is an aspect of playful cuteness in some of the mythology, that should certainly be understood from a symbolic standpoint rather than a literal one if one plans to have some authentic insight into the minds of great thinkers if the past.

In fact, the most significant contributions to Vedic thought have always come from those who are able to break apart the myths with systematic, logical, symbol oriented explanations.

It's always amusing, from a vaishnava standpoint, that such thinkers were often referred to as mayavadis and other terms like impersonalists. And we were taught that such great thinkers were falling short somehow in their insight about consciousness and nature. We were taught to fear such thinkers and steer clear of their very deep and sound philosophies in exchange for cheap, cheesy, silly, contradictory stories.

Yet, the one core principle of many of these great teachers philosophies, centered around the rejection of the Vedic scriptures and brahminical caste hierarchy which has ironically found its way back to the surface, yet again in both Hindu politics and smaller cults like the Hare Krishnas.

We see it's very vividly in the creation of the Brahmin and sanyassi hierarchy that exist within these organizations. Many of these organizations lay a proprietary claim on the way the Scriptures should be interpreted. With the creation of catchy book titles like the Bhagavad-Gita as it is, an entire generation of spiritual seekers has been hoodwinked into believing that God sat for four hours in the middle of a tense battlefield explaining to Arjuna the difference between foods in the mode of goodness, passion, and ignorance among other repetitive and useless themes found in the Gita. Devotees then spend years avoiding things like garlic and onions, based on these verses, fully believing that by eating such foods, they are degrading their consciousness and ability to progress on the spiritual path.

As with all things claiming to be absolute, enjoy with a grain of salt. It is more likely that a guru will continue to spoonfeed you half truths for the rest of your life if you do not start using your own mind and researching things for yourself and trying to understand them from the angle of reason and logic. Do reason and logic have limitations? Sure, existence is flawed. But this should not be an immediate excuse to gobble up nonsense or take something at face value.
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

April 18, 2016, 7:49 pm
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Haha, Weird Al’s Foil, very appropriate!

Yoko Ono sings We are All Water; Look at Me So Arty; I Rule John Lennon

Wai Lana sings Namaste; Look at Me So Spiritual; So Give Me All Your Money

I wondered what the hell was going on inside the hosts’ minds as they listened to Yoko Ono?

I remember finding a CD in the sales bin at Sam’s, ground floor of the North Tower in New York, just before 9-11. It was Yoko Ono’s Greatest Hits. Did she ever had one single hit? It was $5. No, I did not buy it.

If there’s an alternate theory to the conspiracy that the taking down of Twin Towers wasn’t by the al Qaeda, here’s a good one:

Somebody must have tried to listen to that CD, Yoko Ono’s Greatest Hits and got the wrath of God.

If I may add, when you see Wai Lana’s yoga dance or her singing Namaste on YouTube? Please don’t. We don’t want another 9-11 here. That bad.

That’s one huge problem with the Butler cult, nobody has the guts to admit, let alone voice out that Wai Lana is horri-bol (palm-face). It’s offensive to even think it. Add that on top of all the bullshits everyone has to tolerate in the cult to devote one’s life to Krishna? Poor children. That’s one huge psychological abuse issue.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 18, 2016, 7:52 pm
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Dylan Guss is said to be only 23 years old. He is good salesperson, comes across as a genuine and kindhearted young man, customers say he convinced them to hand over their hard earned money.

Also Marc Shackman tells people that he is involved in Buddhism, that was taken as meaning that he would be trustworthy.
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Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

April 18, 2016, 11:43 pm
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That bowing down thing is way, way over the top for this age and time. We did it during the 60s and the 70s because we didn’t know any better back then. We were so ignorant of so many things. But for today’s brain that is simply unacceptable and ridiculous. It would feel 20 times more demeaning now since our brains have evolved leaps and bounds in accumulated knowledge. Getting rid of that practice should be included in the “rebranding”, if they want to survive. Also, the term “absolute” truth does not make sense any longer.

I remember my mom used to say, “maybe, they know things we just don’t know”, referring to politicians who propose bills that violate constitutional rights like the police’s power to seize properties they suspected to be drug-related.

“No, mom, nothing is arcane anymore, including the constitution.” Anyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Everything is just one click away. There are no more excuses for Krishna devotees to insist that theirs is a genuine and most truthful religion. Their history, theology, politics, crimes, controversies, statements are properly documented. They have been proven guilty decades ago, the trial is over. Even their scriptures are full of holes. They have to level down and become accountable human beings just like anyone else and drop this moral superiority shtick. Gurus shit and have sexual urges just like anyone else.

Rick Ross’s book, Cults Inside Out concluded that as long as there’s money in brainwashing religious cults unfortunately will still be with us.

Brainwashing is not really that difficult. It’s just like making yoghourt. All you need is a bucket of milk and a culture. Once mixed and given time you’ll have a bucket of yoghourt. But there’s a way to spoil it. Knowledge is the anti-culture, even a pinch will stop the curd to solidify consistently.

Ian, thank you. This is the type of conversation I believe could be helpful to those engaged in a cultic practice, I wish other posters would contribute to as well. For the record, I do not hate Krishna devotees, as I do not hate my Christian, Jewish or Muslim brothers and sisters. I have met the nicest and most talented people in the cult. But I do want them to recognize what are obviously questionable, inappropriate and even criminal they get psychologically coerced to accept. If it is just for love, charity and peace, I will have no quarrel for.
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Re: Eric Allen Bell

April 19, 2016, 1:27 am
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I've been watching the Facebook page of Eric Allen Bell, monitoring it closely. Recently he put out a horrible, horrible video basically demonizing anyone who follows Islam. He is essentially saying that Muhammad was worse than Hitler and so therefore anyone who follows the Prophet Muhammad is worse than a Nazi. Then his reasoning becomes that if we would not tolerate a Nazi, why should we tolerate someone who follows the Prophet Muhammad.

And then A LOT of people share what he has to say, on Facebook and Twitter. I feel he is personally partially responsible for the chilling wave of Islamophobia that is overtaking this country. This man has too much power and too much influence and he is using it to try to destroy the the fast growing religion in the world today.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 19, 2016, 8:56 am
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Raven Starre ...if you google her name ...she is a big big scammer

I took part in several MILLIONAIRE MIND seminars by HERV ECKER another mentor of Trinity ....theses people do not care about the participants in their seminars
Its sell ...sell and when you come out of a $2000 6 days seminars
they have more seminars to sell you ...Trinity as hand around theses pressure sales tactics for years ...its just normal that he wants to uses the same teckniques to sell Ayahuaska ceremonies ...But this is a very dangerius game for the mental health of the participants .
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Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

April 19, 2016, 9:19 am
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Surprising to see that not to many people are posting on this tread ...

with 50% of all the kids that went to the hare Krishna schools weing sexually molested ...and some beat up black and blue ..

all the arrange marriages that finish in disaster...wuth hundreds of kids
wondering what the fuck cult they where born into ...

I have been thinking recently ....me who as a swami and a GBC (a leader in ISKCON
how brainwash I was .....SOOOOO brainwash

Anyway the truth is that there are proff that jesus existed as a historical man
BUT THERE NOT ONE SINGLE PROOF THAT KRISHNA EVER EXISTE ...NONE
A BLUE GOD THAT COULD BE MERRIED TO 10,000 WIFES AND DIVIDE HIMSELF IN 1O,OOO
WHO LIFT A MONTAIN WITH ONE FINGER ....WHO FOUGHT DEMONS THAT WHERE A MILE HIGHT....A BLUE GOD THAT NEVER AGE BEYOUD 16 YEARS OLD
NO PROOF WHASOHEVER ....NONE
POSSIBLY A BLUE GOD IMAGINE IN THE IND OF A GREAT SAGE NOVALIST
IT IS AMAZING HOW PEOPLE ACCEPT THINGS JUST BECAUSE SO AND SO SAID IT IS SO
I MET A BUNCH OF KRISHNA DEVOTESS YESTERDAY IN THE USA
IF YOU CHALLENGE THEIR BELIEFS....ITS ALL PREPARE AWNSER LIKE THE JEHOVA WITNESS
I TOOK KRISHNA TO BE REAL FOR YEARS ...CONVINCE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TO BELIEVE HE WAS FOR REAL ....NOW I JUST DO NOT BELIVE HE EVER EXISTED 5000 YEARS AGO
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

April 19, 2016, 11:55 am
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Check out this amazing article about Tulsi Gabbard, and all the comments.

Bernie Sanders Must Drop Tulsi Gabbard

http://ww4report.com/node/14756

PAY ATTENTION TO COMMENTOR MIKA ERICKSON - that is the real deal opposition to Chris Butler right there.

Dharmabum- Wai Lana sure is Horri-Bol haha and DABS, much respect to Yoko Ono for calling out ACBS and his BS way back then.

Don't be expecting Yoko Ono to be buying up your crazy Hare Krishna RAPEligion.

Yoko will definitely flip that dynamic on its head. Too bad she didn't give ACBS a taste of his own medicine... Sorry, I'll leave that one there.

I'll just say that if she wanted to give some chauvinist Hare Krishna rape lover a taste of his own medicine, she'd have them singing like her.

Yep, I went there. Yoko Ono with a strap on making Hare Krishnas re-evaluate their pro rape teachings.

*drops the mic, walks offstage.*
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

April 19, 2016, 7:12 pm
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There's a wave of resistance and seeing through the fog of politics and religion right now. it's about time. A renaissance of thinking is taking place. There will be a few people who complain and bitch through it all and cry "hindu-phobe" whenever you shed light on the craziness, but ultimately vaishnavism has been a self-identified cult since it's inception. It's not anymore representative of hinduism than the rest of the rather rational philosophies and ideologies born in the east. No need to protect it folks. By implication, hinduism has become a hodgepodge of undefinable quasi-spiritual mumbo jumbo mixed with authentic rational thought. It's time to separate the wheat from the chaff. It's time to expose and reveal the glory of india's true contributions to progressive philosophical and cultural realities. Few nations can lay claim to a depth of thought that was prevalent in ancient india—and ironically it had little to nothing to do with brahminical values and beliefs expounded in such heavily altered texts as the Gita. Lets welcome that "hinduism", if we must call it something. Because whatever it's become is far from sound and grounded.

Commentators like Mika Ericsson in that bernie/tulsi post are shedding light on the masquerade. This "character", Tulsi, is not authentic in any way shape and form (she was groomed to play this role). She may be a "nice person" or even sincere (won't be the first time sincerity amounted to a pile of shit)—in fact, I generally think most people are, underneath it all, sincere and looking for a greater good. Regardless what that greater good is, it needs to originate in a authentic space to have meaning and value.

I'm sad that tulsi is choosing to play the "hindu" card. It's not served her well in any well. Not because of the "hindu" part, but that everyone, including herself, knows it's a sham—a card she's playing that in no way reveals the deck.

Oh well. Life goes on, but—yes Rama—all this talk of Yoko has amounted to one fact: Ono may have had a hold on John and a crappy voice, but she is a strong independent woman that spoke her mind and did not need to be part of a cult known for wide scale abuses and she did not need a swamis approval to know that she had value and the ability to make true impact on society by maintaining her unique thinking voice and unreplacate-able "yoko" effect. There is only one yoko. There are hundreds of cheap Wai Lana and Butler couples—hiding under piles of their followers cash—or in this case, er, tin foil.
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

April 19, 2016, 8:04 pm
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I must admit I like Siddha’s first album, The Gentle Force. I still hum “Water” and “Simple Country Girl” once in a while. I thought they are catchy. I really don’t know the mystery or the rationale behind banning that album. The instrumentation is world-class. For the theme, I think Siddha’s voice is descent enough, I really thought the album had potentials.

I listened to his and Wai Lana’s collaborated album, it’s pathetic. What happened? I think Siddha got disillusioned as John was because the wife can do no wrong. They both got blinded from the obvious and chose to live in denial. The Emperor and the Empress have no clothes on and no one dare say that to their faces. Well, Siddha, Wai Lana, it’s bad, really bad. Like 9-11 bad.

The comparison has a merit, but what separates Yoko from Wai Lana is Yoko’s strong sense of human rights, especially woman’s rights, Wai Lana has none. Standing up to that twat, A.C. Bhaktivedanta was simply admirable. Dabcult is right.

I remember Wai Lana always seated and dances in front of Siddha during lectures and kirtan, with her long-straight, beautiful and shiny hair. She was obviously smitten, and vice-versa. This talk about their transcendental relationship, his vow of celibacy and her being pure devotee are one big bullshit everyone has to tolerate and live in denial. Gurus are just like anybody else. They shit and have sexual urges, like you and I.

That’s what cults are – not only do the Emperor and the Empress have no clothes on, everyone is nekid, the game must go on.

Warren Buffet said, when the tide ebbs down, people will see who is swimming naked.
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Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

April 19, 2016, 10:13 pm
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Thank you, dabcult for posting on this thread. Your vast experience in the Hare Krishna movement is crucial to helping people break free from cult delusion. There are many naïve people like Aloha girl still impressed with the Krishna lifestyle and ideology who are now parents to small children that shield them from the awesomest time in the history of mankind, denying them in the process of finding their potentials, voices and their own unique authentic life. These people have no idea what values in life they are losing and missing, all for the service of charlatans. Having had the front-row seat inside the Hare Krishna movement will surely help expose the hypocrisy, politics, psychological abuse and even criminal elements in the ideology.

Sharing our accounts, info and opinions the best we could is all we could do. It’s a thankless and time-consuming task, but I do believe is worth it, even if there’s only one soul to benefit. These children are precious and faultless.

Knowledge is the best weapon to challenge authority. The whole Krishna movement is all about authority of elite few preying upon impressionable and ignorant people using mumbo-jumbo and false historicity. Truth works slowly, but as long as it is accessible, it will resonate and change lives. Soon all this yoga woowoos, pseudo health craps and cute Sanskrit bullshits will lose their luster and novelty and the whole Krishna business will go bankrupt.

Hey, more than 800 views. I’m sure people lurking will help spread the fire. Keep this thread interesting. Thanks.
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The biggest danger is that Tulsi is unfortunately a huge recruitment source for the cult

April 20, 2016, 5:19 am
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The biggest danger is that Tulsi is unfortunately a huge recruitment source for the cult. The more success she achieves, the greater a tool she becomes - so yes, Bernie has to distance himself from her for that reason alone. But he won't. He is stuck in a self-tightening Gordian Knot. It is impossible for him to dump her without looking "Hindu-phobic" - so don't hold your breath waiting for him to vet her out of his campaign any time soon.

Sadly, I once gave Tulsi credit for coming out and honestly avowing her guru. What I didn't realize is how hard it would be to get people to distinguish between a valid religion and a cult. I didn't realize how one lie could hide in plain sight under the Hinduism veil. One lie covers another lie.

What is questionable regarding Bernie is how could he not know Tulsi's history, speeches, and political positions? He and his team are not that stupid. It's not as if he is a bumbling oaf who just did not realize that Tulsi was connected to a cult.

It is not so puzzling that they do not consider her connection with Butler a problem. Chalk that up to the doctrine of multiculturalism or politics as usual. They can't wiggle out of that one without appearing less than liberal.

What is problematic is that Tulsi's politics seem counter to Sander's. But are they? Looking at Willis Butler's (Chris's father's) politics, they are perfectly aligned.

I would investigate if Bernie Sanders knew or knew of Willis Butler "back in the day". Willis was in touch with most of the prominent Socialists/leftists/Communists from the 1950's, 1960's till his death.

So our work is cut out for us.

One thing I can say for certain is that Chris Butler does not care a thing about social justice or humanity. The only thing he cares about is himself and playing his little masturbatory guru games. Just as he makes up his "spiritual path" as he goes, he will change his politics for his own fun and games.

Bernie doesn't mind a little aluminum foil stuck to his heels when the election is being stolen from him....
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Tulsi is a Guru-ist not a Hindu

April 20, 2016, 6:53 am
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Any person in public life who takes up with Tulsi Gabbard will become
a hostage to fortune--specifically, a hostage to the history and family secrets
of Chris Butler the mad guru and his ducal family, the Gabbards.

Tulsi Gabbard is not just "Tulsi Gabbard".

Tulsi is not a person. If you get involved with Tulsi, you, whether you know it or not, have become involved not just with Tulsi; you get involved with her entire family, with all the family secrets.

You will become involved with the death of Sri Shim.

You will become involved with the Gabbard family and its dirty politics.

You will become entangled with Tulsi's parerents' mad guru, Chris Butler.

You will become involved with the many who have been tormented as children in
the jungle school in the Philippines.

It is my citizen's opinion that Tulsi wears her Hinduism as a costume. She wears her Hinduism on orders from the producer of the Chris Butler Drama.

Had Chris Butler been a Christian cult dictator, Tulsi would have been taught to present herself in Christian costume.

What Bernie needs is someone who offers something better than Tulsi and her handlers: a person who is committed to participatory democracy and practices one of the Hindu sects.

What people do not yet understand is that Tulsi has never truly lived as a citizen.

Tulsi calls herself Hindu. But in her case, the term 'Hindu' is a distraction.

Tulsi was born into a dictatorship ruled by a mad guru, a guru who owns his disciples and owns their children.

And plays with their lives and careers.

Tulsi has been advised and monitored by handlers her entire life. Legally, she is a born citizen of the United States of America.

Functionally, emotionally, Tulsi is a subject to a mad monarch.

A person who makes a clear distinction between the Hinduisms versus Hindu Nationalist jingoism and retrograde regression into guru idolatry.

Find someone like this to advise and accompany Bernie Sanders, and he can
ditch Tulsi and her shady handlers.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 20, 2016, 7:35 am
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New Haven/Paul Dean aka "Man Found Standing" has purchased over 400 acres in Douglas County, Missouri at varies locations to use as retreats and such all being "Sacred." Money is coming from somewhere????
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