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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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I was graciously given permission by Rama, to share the following conversation
he and I had. It was in regards to a recent contact that Rama had with his brother, Laks via text.

It seems the cages (brainwashed minds) are being rattled.


I had asked Rama what had transpired between the two:


Rama- Quote:"Nothing new besides the fact he actually started messaging me, but it's all
the same old bullshit.
I should apologize and stop what I'm doing. He’s [Laks] a
brainwashed idiot. No progress, but they were obviously upset after I put
my face on video with Henry.

More impact. They were upset about the asthma abuse
story, said I am lying, yet pretty much admitted it did happen, mostly
concerned about saying it had nothing to do with Chris Butler.

All bullshit, obviously.

My mum is all upset about it, yet can't even talk to me about it, playing
the victim. But she did abuse me with her cult mentality as a child,
withholding the medical care. A year of full blown asthma attacks, no
inhaler. Sick butch knew what she was doing, and she was sticking by the
cult rules of the time, not to put me on the inhaler.”



My reply:
Quote: "Ahh Rama- don’t worry- You KNOW what happened to you- THEY can’t take away your truth!
But isn’t it just like them, to try to do a revisionist history on what really happened?
Especially back then. I could tell you stories; in fact I think I will post one on the forum soon.

And it always comes packaged the same way- Butler tells them to get Laks to reach out to you-


- point out the error of your ways
- try to tell you it didn’t happen
- you must apologize
- you have to stop what you are doing
- and my personal favorite, you are lying



Right...as if a 4 yr old could invent all that! But a meglomaniac hell bent on controlling everything CAN and DOES do precisely this.
Butler has created his own reality and all the devbots follow blindly along. It IS as Butler says it is..and nothing else!

What does this sound like? It sounds like all the reams of research
relating to child abuse- classic patterns of negation and blaming the child for the issues and then to add insult to injury, trying to force the victim to apologize.

Is this not the very definition of....INSANITY?

Now let’s fast forward several decades.
What sort of rewriting of history has Butler done to gloss over the accident of Sri Shim?
And..
what really happened on that fateful day, because nothing more has been forthcoming.
Don’t expect the cult to tell the truth.


Vox”

End quote.


and, in case its been missed..

BUTLER CONTROLS EVERY SINGLE THING THAT HAS HAPPENED AND WILL HAPPEN FOR EVERYONE IN THRALL TO HIM - NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT HIS SAY-SO. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THUS.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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It's actually true that the expenses exceeded the contributions we've received - both Marc and Trinity, the founders of the church, have invested and lost money from their own savings. Although the contributions we've received were not an exchange for services, out of good faith we will be sending everyone their money back if they're not happy with a retreat in Peru .
IF I UNDERSTAND
So first if you have been screwed by TNT and is "AMAZING AMAZING CREW "
you simply have to spend another $1,000 to fly to the jungle of Peru ....and if you feel you have been re-screwed by taking part in a phoney ceremony than deep in the jungle after your in the after glow of AYAHUASKA you can ask TNT for you money back ...well ladies and gentlemen that sound like an ironclad guarantee.
Your cell phone will be useless ...you wont be able to communicate with the outside world ...GOOD LUCK

Re: Terasem Movement Foundation

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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"Chris Butler is 100% responsible for the death of Sri Shim, wether this was the unintentional outcome of the extremely dangerous behaviour that Chris Butler's loyal disciples like Sai Hansen had been instructed by their master to conduct."

AS MUCH AS I THINK THAT BUTLER IS A FALSE AND MISGUIDED CULT LEADER ...
I DO NOT THINK THAT HE CAN CONTROL ALL THE INDIVIDUAL BEHAVIORS OF EVERY BRAINWASH DISCIPLES THAT FALLOW HIM ....NO MORE THAN BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI COULD CONTROL BUTLER OR THE HUNDREDS OF HARE KRISHNA FOLLOWERS THAT HE HAD .

WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT SAI HENSEN MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE BOAT WITHOUT PERMISSION ....IT WAS IN HIS NAME AFTER ALL .(EVEN IF HE NO PERMIT TO RUN A BOAT ) CHRIS BUTLER DID NOT BECOME RICH AND ESTABLISH IN HAWAII BY NEGLECTING PAPER WORKS ...HE AS MAINTAIN MANY MANY NON PROFIT ORGANISATIONS WORLDWIDE
AND THAT TAKES A LOT OF PAPERWORK AND OVERSIGHTS ...I JUST DO NOT THINK HE WOULD HAVE PUT HIS WHOLE KINGDOM IN JEOPARDY WITH A TULSI IN CONGRESS TO PERSUE A DIVER IN THE GENERAL AREA IN FRONT OF HIS SECONDARY HOME.

WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT SRI SHIM DID NOT USE FLAGS TO INDICATE THAT HE WAS DIVING AT A CERTAIN SPOT (THAT WAS A BIG MISTAKE ON HIS PART ) THAT SURELY WILL COME UP AT THE UPCOMING TRIAL )

I THINK IT IS VERY UNLIKELY THAT SAI HANSEN WOULD DELIBERATLY
RUN IS MOTOR BLADES OVER ANOTHER HUMAN BEING (WITH HIS DAUGHTER ON BOARD )

MY POINT HERE IS THAT WE HAVE AS A COMMUNITY TRYING TO EXPOSE A CULT AND A CULT LEADER ....MUST NOT SOUND IRRESPONSABLE IN OUR ACCUSATIONS.

THERE IS NO WAY THAT A CULT LEADER CAN CONTROL EVERY ACTIONS AND BEHAVIORS OF A THOUSANDS OF HIS FOLLOWERS ...ITS JUST COMMON SENSES .

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Latest from Trinity:

Quote
Trinity
Many of you are wondering how to attend
our Ayahuasca Ceremonies in America.

Before going into that, it's important
that you first understand the "backstory".Behind exactly what is unfolding in
our Church - right now.

On January 22, 2016, we held our first
weekend service at our Church in Elbe,
Washington.Here, we shared the sacrament Ayahuasca
with our Members, and it was a pivotal
moment, so life-changing for the blessed
people who came.(click the video above to hear these
Members' heart-opening stories)It was history in the making.Being able to share Ayahuasca in
America, as publicly as we are.Just like we were guided to by
Madre herself.


***BTW - I'm excited to tell you about
how this whole "Ayahuasca in America"
movement started...A beautiful story, with visions that
came so unexpectedly, while I was living
in Mexico.I learned so much about how to follow
my truth, to trust my heart, and to not
care about what others think of or expect
from me...Excited to share it with you!

***Soon enough, after serving medicine
for a month in Washington, we got a
letter from the DEA. (February, 2016)It was friendly.They simply requested that we file a
petition for exemption under the RFRA,
before continuing to share Ayahuasca.( RFRA: Religious Freedom Restoration Act,
a United States federal law that "ensures that
interests in religious freedom are protected.")Fortunately, they mentioned the UDV vs
Gonzales Court Case, where a legal
precedent was set in favor of Ayahuasca.Basically:In 2006, the UDV Church fought a court
case against the US Supreme Court, to
use Ayahuasca religiously, and won.The US Supreme Court ruled that due to
the RFRA, they are allowed to use
Ayahuasca in America, legally.And based on this court ruling, and
our Constitutional Right to exercise
our Religious Freedom...We are sharing Ayahuasca in America,
openly and publicly.To bring this medicine to you - our
brothers and sisters who we know are
called to this medicine for a powerful
reason...( What is that reason? That's what I
deeply feel I'm here to help you with. )Now here's the part that matters most

-The DEA recommended[sic] we pause any retreats,
and stop sharing Ayahuasca, during the
process of filing for the exemption.This is why in March, 2016, we made
the decision to put a hold on leading
any future Church Services where
Ayahuasca Ceremonies would be involved.

For a month, we worked so hard with
our lawyer.And by April, 2016, after a very intense
process of preparing everything the DEA
asked for from us -The amazing petition was completed,
and sent off to the DEA!( Woohoo!!! )

And this is where we ask you for your help.Please pray.The power of prayer, of positive intention,
is beyond words.Please: see, and hold with excitement and
gratitude in your heart...Us - all of us - America, and the people
who need this medicine most...See that we receive this DEA Exemption.To share this life-changing medicine,
Mother Ayahuasca, inside America.To help us in our global awakening. Through
these powerful and challenging times.

Now, if you're still wondering how to
attend any of our future Ayahuasca
Ceremonies -
First thing to do, would be a member
of our Church.

But until we receive the DEA Exemption,
we have taken down our membership page
from our website.You can still join, but I would honestly
recommend you wait.Until we have this DEA Exemption for sure.Then we'll let you know more about the
benefits of joining, and the beautiful
community coming together.It's amazing watching us grow.
From all over the world, with the same
unifying intention - wanting to discover
and live our purpose, to be in service
to those around us...To open our hearts, find the freedom our
soul seeks, and experience the deepest
fulfillment we came here to live.I'm so excited to share more. I just
wanted to let you know exactly what
was happening.

So you can stop wondering how to
experience Ayahuasca in America -We'll let you know as soon as we have
more information!Thank you for joining me today!I'll talk to you tomorrow![To Be Continued...]With infinite love, committed for us ALL,
Trinity de Guzman & The Ayahuasca Healings Family

PS - If you are still called to this
medicine but don't want to wait until
we get an answer from the DEA.We are still holding Ayahuasca retreats
in Peru.I'll let you know more about those in
my next email!There is this incredible 82 year old Master
Shipibo Elder who I am so grateful for
the opportunity to introduce you to...Ahh, beautiful, blessed life!Talk soon!Love!!!
Your Highest Truth Inc.
240 N. Glynde Ave.
Burnaby BC v5b 1g9
CANADA

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Wow. They were notified in Feb., yet Trinity didn't make this public til nearly mid April.

I wonder if their lawyer told Trinity that they would have an exemption in just a few weeks, or if Trinity continues to simply not listen to any reality.

Apologists for Ayahuasca Healings are attempting to tone police critics on social media, perhaps in an attempt to shut us up. I encourage critics to persist, the substance of what we are saying matters.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Dabcult


Sri Shim and Trey definitely had red dive flags out, and also an unmanned kayak in the vicinity.

I don't know where you got the idea that they didn't have flags, in fact cult members like John Bishop are the only people claiming the divers didn't have flags.

It was reported in multiple initial news reports that they did indeed have dive flags out and the flags and kayak were dragged in to shore by rescuers.

My point is that Sri's death, even in the most innocent scenario of an accident/unintentional death is completely Chris Butler's fault, because he has ordered these guys to drive the boat at high speeds. That boat killed Sri because it was being carelessly operated as per the instructions of Chris Butler.

I think my point is accurate no matter the scenario.

Even if Sai had gone out in "Srila Prabhupada's boat" on his own accord, the death is still 100% Chris Butler's fault because Sai Hansen would never be in Kailua if it weren't to serve Chris Butler day in, and day out.

Sai may "own" the boat on paper, but that boat would never have been in Lanikai if it weren't purchased specifically for Chris Butler's use.

Seeing as using that boat required the older disciple with the truck and trailer, I highly doubt Sai ever once dared to use that boat without Chris Butler's permission, because Chris Butler would find out and punish Sai accordingly.

There is a big difference between the amount of control Bhaktivedanta Swami had over his multitudes of disciples and the control Chris Butler has over every last disciple in Kailua.

I am not exaggerating when I say that every last cult member allowed the privilege of residing in the same town as Chris Butler should be considered as an indentured servant or willing slave, following Chris Butler's orders to the letter 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

These guys' every move is known by Chris Butler. Chris Butler will call on anyone to be disciplined at any time for the smallest action that is not to Chris' approval.

Henry, you know a lot about the cult, but I don't think you understand the amount of control Chris Butler really has over his followers.

Sai Hansen's actions in the boat, in the full context of being a cult member in direct personal service to Chris Butler, should be understood to be representing Chris Butler's will in his every action to the point that he is an active employee who killed and maimed with company property, while on official business and operating the boat to the specific requirements of Chris Butler.

I will not for a second give Sai Hansen and Chris Butler the benefit of the doubt in this case.

I say that it would and should have been impossible for whoever drove that boat to not see the diving flags, the kayak and the divers.

Anything could have happened out there, and if it were intentional, I think the young girl was added to the scenario to give the impression that it couldn't possibly be intentional.

Why did Sai refuse to get on the 911 call? Why was the girl so strange in her responses on that call, why was she being told what to say, why did it take the boat 11 minutes to show at the ramp when they were seconds away the whole time? Why was the engine of the boat not running for the entire 911 call and why did the young girl lie about being at the boat ramp two times? They were beaten to the boat ramp by emergency services by 5 minutes, and didn't arrive until 5 minutes after the girl hung up, claiming she was at the boat ramp when she hung up 5 minutes before actually arriving.

Also, the GPS location for this 911 call originated on dry land, from the middle of a golf course. This was part of the information gathered by Carrol Cox when he received the emergency call through FOIA request.

It sure looks like some elaborate cover up, stalling time, giving false info, using the child's involvement specifically to impact perception of the incident, to imply it was an accident.

But I think they went too far by making the girl call 911 without ever getting on the phone themselves. This is not the action of a person in an unplanned emergency making their best efforts to rectify the situation, this bizarre 911 call is the product of these cult members following a scripted plan of action layer out by Butler.

Nothing about the girl alone talking to 911 made sense. And if this call truly didn't even originate in the boat, then just try to wrap your head around the implications of that.

Massive cover up, elaborate conspiracy to obscure the truth and feign innocence.

Maybe cold blooded, a hit, but could have been an accident they scrambled to cover up, perhaps just to remove an important person like Siddha Bellord from the scene.

Siddha Bellord seems to be at least one of the male voices on this call, and this girl on the phone I do not think is Sai's daughter.

I believe the girl on the 911 call is Siddha Bellord's young daughter Tungi Bellord.

A distinctive Bellord accent.

To even be allowed by Chris Butler to touch that boat is a very exclusive thing, only a small group would have the quarantine clearance to be allowed on it. Not a single action on, around or with that boat would ever go unreported to Chris Butler, that boat cannot even be touched without wearing gloves, due to Chris Butler's control over that boat.

Mechanics who work on the boat are made to wear gloves at all times.

There is no chance in hell that Sai Hansen ever once took that boat out without approval from Chris Butler.

This isn't some random Chris Butler followers somewhere across the world, this is ON SITE, man, nothing happens that isn't Chris Butler's specific instruction.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity


Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Even if the death were unintentional, Chris Butler is totally responsible.

100%

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Maybe the death was absolutely intentional, the young girl's involvement completely scripted and Chris Butler did it because he knew it would be considered an accident.

It will, too, due to the fact of it happening in the ocean, struck by a boat and under the jurisdiction of the DLNR, who Chris Butler knew always look the other way on anything involving his followers driving his boat around.

They had 10 or more years of knowing full well that they could do whatever they wanted in that boat without consequence, and at some point they realized that IF they wanted to kill some offensive demons, doing it by boat, in the water and under the DLNR was by far an easy murder to get away with.

Just imagine how it would have played out if we never got involved. It would have successfully equated to the minor infraction issued by the DLNR.

The case was only picked up by state prosecutors due to massive outrage on the grass roots community level and pressure behind the scenes.

Sai Hansen very nearly walked away from killing a man with a minor ticket unrelated to the death and injury.

The perceived risk was low, so they tried it.

Chris Butler owns people in the government. Specifically Mike Gabbard at the DLNR and the waters of Oahu are the only place on planet earth where Chris Butler has political influence to feel like he controls the government. He may have wanted to kill while he had the man on the inside, Mike Gabbard. This whole thing may have been openly discussed with Mike Gabbard before it happened.

Sri Shim and Trey Albrecht may have been diving too close to hidden valuables stored in the reef, locals had reported seeing Wai Lana diving from that boat with satchels in her hand, returning to the surface without the satchel, apparently hiding valuables down in the reef. This was reported to me by a local who grew up there, and had watched Wai Lana, Chris Butler and other cult members use this boat for many years, going back over a decade.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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I wont argue with you Rama ...but from what I read at the time of the accident is that there was no flags by Sri Shim
the only flag recovered belong to another person...not Sri Shim the report that I read noted ...Yes there was a kayak ...but they where diving many yards from the kayak .I do not have the quote ....if you have one to the contrary it be nice to see it.

For sure you know much more than me the level of control and brainwashing going on in Kailua ...for me specific expose on specific actions of the cult is more convincing ...if we back it up with proof.
Members of congress that might have seen my latest video on Tulsi Gabbard ...now more than 700 views ....should be offer specifics ...
Check this flag things ..its important to me anyway
And you know what I think of the asshole anyway .

Re: Terasem Movement Foundation

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Quite the loaded language they use, lots of words redefined.

Is there any news yet on whether this is just a case of odd (to me) beliefs, or a manipulative leader behaving badly?

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Yes TNT does sound like a deceiver ...but then he held deposits on ceremonies
and the costumers where held to hold their breath ...AND KEEP SPENDING THAT MONEY THAT IS NOT HIS TO SPEND ...HE AS TO KEEP SAYING ."THESE AMAZING AMAZING CEREMONIES ARE JUST AROUND THE CORNER FOLKS "

He lies ...he deceive and he as the gall to say
"And this is where we ask you for your help.Please pray.The power of prayer, of positive intention is beyond words.Please "

I do not know how many people are on their knees making this prayer

"OH DEAR GOD PLEASE LET THE DEA APPROVE THE CHURCH OF TRINITY GUZMAN "

SWEET JESUS ...WHAT A RELIGIOUS SCAM !

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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At least for the moment, the ayahuascahealings.com site is down.

Archives can be found here: [web.archive.org]

Re: Terasem Movement Foundation


Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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That dreaded term: “On Site”

Seceretly NO ONE wanted to be on site--it was draconian by any definition.
24-7 at Butler’s beck and call and no one knew when he would explode over some trivial or nonsensical thing.
Only the most slavish of devbots actually want to be near Butler- and it should be
noted in the past- most of those were the females- no surprise there.
But now those females have given birth to a new generation- who are now the 24-7 servants of Butler- and make no mistake- they do serve.

One has to hand it to Butler- at what point did he realize that he could control the women, get them to marry and then make sure their babies would be raised to worship him? Then, 17-18 years later, more new babies being bred and trained to serve and worship him?
What a scam, especially for a man who once stated he would rather be dead than have to work for a living.
Do you know what they did (and may be still doing) to two generations of babies?

Every night they get slapped into headphones and have to listen to the Butler tapes...every stinking night...year after year...


When you are “on site"
....no one can hear you scream....


Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Hamlet:
What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god! the beauty of the world, the paragon of animals—and yet,
to me, what is this quintessence of dust?



Humans are amazing.

This is what Jagad Screwball and the Science of Nonsensity is so fucking retarded about. They see humans as pests. Their fixation on being morally superior to others is irritating. Subjecting the followers especially the children to this duplicitous, superficial and morally bankrupt form of spirituality is probably their number one guilt against society.

If you suppress information, if you suppress debate and if you suppress the ability to question things and the faculty to think, you have no business of being a teacher in whatever shape or form. Teachers are facilitators of truth, and the best method of finding the truth is through Dialectic. Charlatans, the likes of Jagad Screwball are purveyors of nonsense, and parents should avoid them by all means if they love their children and are true parents.

Vera wrote:
Quote
Author, Jon Rappoport

I’m not trying to discourage any and every group response—but I am saying, without question, that every major covert op is played to eradicate the idea of the individual. This is basic mind control. This is the reason mind control exists: to elevate “group” over “individual.”

Mind control tries to make individuals think of themselves as helpless pieces on the chessboard.

Mind control tries to make individuals surrender their free will.

Mind control tries to make individuals believe they have no place in the modern world.
Rather, they must be part of a group; otherwise, they’re invisible.


With all said and done about cults, in the end, a cult is a game people play, where the guru set up the rules and joiners enjoy the make-believe, inadvertently subjecting themselves into the trappings of mind-control. It’s one thing for the guru to say something seemingly true like we are not the body or God is love, but to further push the envelope to as asinine as gays are unnatural and therefore evil. No one in the crowd would raise a hand and say, “wait a sec …”. Because that’s not part of the game. People around will say “oh, come on …”. Everyone understood. If someone suggest “will somebody throw this guy out …”, someone will literally do, because as simple and as normal is it to question in the real world, it is not so in a cult – it’s a bummer to question the guru. He’s spoiling the game everyone enjoys.

There is no “bullet-proofed” dogma, and cult followers know that. They just believe it, and that’s it. No amount of reason will dissuade them from not believing, because it’s based on the deep-seeded need to believe in something, no matter how ridiculous that belief can be. They will avoid debate, and they will avoid uncontrolled environment. That’s why they have safehouses or lifestyle centers where everyone submits to a vulnerable or suggestible state, where everyone agrees and is not conducive to questioning things. It’s all a game and everyone in it enjoys playing it.

What makes a cult is really the core followers. They become the culture that everyone percolates around. Like a locust swarm where collectively you become one creature, and you can’t slow down, if you do, you become a lunch to the one behind you.

I hope the young ones will realize that the whole setup is in itself the art of mind-control. The social pressure, the fun and games, the support system and the dogma everyone lives by. This game they play is not just so outdated, all that gives is false fun, false hope, false modesty and false spirituality.


The world has taken a much wider perspective of ourselves as a species and the Universe we live in. It’s insane that there are still uninformed charlatans like Jagad Screwball still pontificating discredited, and bankrupt religious ideology and people still believe. That is sooooo 1970s. While we live in the most awesome time ever, in the history of mankind there are still children out there that are under the spell of mind-control, deprived of their true potentials and intellectual freedom. This is the wrongest time to be in a cult, period.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Chris "White Ball" Butler learned the guru business from Srila Prabhupada,
creator of International Society for Krishna Consciousness.

Prabhupada was in a small sect of Krishna devotees which originated within
16th to 17th century Bengal, in India.

The older Indian religions originated in Indian societies which had no
concept of inherent dignity of the ordinary human person.

In India, identity comes from membership in a family, period.

To support your family, especially if you are an oldest son, made responsible for care of elderly parents, elderly relatives, marriage money for one's sisters, one is under terrible pressure. What you do to persons outside your family and caste is justified if what you do supports the family.

Suketu Mehta, in his book, Maximum City :Bombay Lost and Found, tells us
what is expected of young men in this culture
- where your place in your family defines you. Mehta tells us how young men who are educated and who cannot
find remunerative jobs join mafia groups and murder for hire.

Prabhupada would have put his own family of origin first. Western converts would, for him, have remained melenccha. Barbarians.

This pattern which Professor Steven Dutch terms "thar" shows up again and again in poor areas of the world, especially where there has been social and cultural isolation.

There was no concept of the human individual. In Hinduism your identity came from both your family and your location in the caste/outcaste or tribal categories and which part of the subcontinent you were born in.

For example, persons born in Bihar, who speak with a Bihari accent are discriminated against when they move to large cities to find better jobs.

If Muslim, there was more sense of being a person standing before Allah, accountable for practicing the sharia and the pillars of Islam. However, even Muslims became
stratified into classes. One grinding source of annoyance was that Muslims from Arabia automatically enjoyed status denied to Muslims born in the conquered territories.

Pakistan, an Indo Muslim country is tormented by class divisions that are as
harsh as any caste system in India. If you are born into a kanjari (sex worker family), you are trapped in that for the rest of your life.

To learn more, get and read The Dancing Girls of Lahore.

And both Hinduisms and Buddhism taught that the sensory world was illusion and to be transcended if one was to be liberated.

By contrast, during the 4th to 5th centuries BCE, the Greeks, who regarded the sensory world as a gift of the gods, departure from that world through death to be regrettable, and that participation in human society the route to full human potential (if you were able to be a free male and not a slave or resident alien).

For contrast with India go read a few bits from Herodotus, a Greek who was led by curiosity to learn all he could of the cultures surrounding Greece.

Even where Herodotus' stories may not be factual, those stories teem with
the names of ordinary people. Herodotus will give us the name and locale of a man who crafted a gold cup or statue that was presented to a temple, or give the name of an ordinary man or woman who finds a way to trick a powerful foe and serve his or her community.

And in the Hebrew Scriptures, stories which are the source of proverbs and literary themes that undergird Anglo-American culture, those stories tell of human persons, their hopes, their loves, their crimes and follies and describes those
human beings as bargaining with God to save their people from destruction.

The Buddhist and Hindu scriptures gives miracles and god figures out of all proportion to human beings -- it is on a comic book scale.

In Exodus, the Israelites, liberated from Egypt, bitch about how boring the desert food is and want to return to the delicious fast food available to them during the slave days.

Prophets inform the wealthy and powerful that they owe something to the less fortunate.

You are reminded to remember the stranger, for once you were slaves.

In Hinduism there was nothing like this. Loyalty went only to your caste.

Closed Societies, Open Societies

[www.encyclopedia.com]

Open societies do not expect perfection and monitor for unintended consequences.
They are capable of self critique and self correction - though of course, vested interests grown wealthy upon a injurious social situation will hamper attempts at
self correction - such tobacco companies which make vast sums selling poison to human beings.

Cults inculcate that same closed society mentality today. We, the taxpayers of open societies, subsidize this vile situation.

Compare Krishna the chariot driver, telling Arjuna to kill his beloved teachers and relatives so as to fulfill his dharma duty. All he has are Disneyland special effects that stun and shock Arjuna's mature mind into submission. All that Arjuna has is verbal trickery and verbal bullying, no better than the worst demagogues who have dragged the human family into the mire.

Now, let us look at Athens, and hear what its citizens, male and female, listened
to at the theatre.

What a reminder to those of us who are citizens in a participatory democracy.

But, we have learned that we have an added responsibility.

Our earth is not inexhaustible and oceans are not inexhaustible and require our
loving care.

Here the human condition and civil society are regarded as wonders, privileges,
not as something inferior. Participatory democracy is regarded as an
achievement, not as something preferred by inferior ego ridden Westerners.

[mthoyibi.files.wordpress.com]
Antigone - The Chorus

"
Quote


CHORUS: [Strophe 1]
Numberless are the world’s wonders, but none
More wonderful than man; the stormgray sea
Yields to his prows, the huge crests bear him high;

Earth, holy and inexhaustible, is graven
With shining furrows where his plows have gone
Year after year, the timeless labor of stallions.
[Antistrope 1]
The lightboned birds and beasts that cling to cover, 285
The lithe fish lighting their reaches of dim water,
All are taken, tamed in the net of his mind;
The lion on the hill, the wild horse windy-maned,
Resign to him; and his blunt yoke has broken
The sultry shoulders of the mountain bull.

[Strophe 2]
Words also, ant thought as rapid as air, 290
He fashions to his good use; statecraft is his,
And his the skill that deflect the arrows of snow,
The spears of winter rain: from every wind
He has made himself secure––from all but one:
In the late wind of death he cannot stand.

[Antistrophe 2]
O clear intelligence, force beyond all measure! 295
O fate of man, working both good and evil!
When the laws are kept, how proudly his city stands!
When the laws are broken, what of his city then?
Never may the anarchic man find rest at my hearth,
Never be it said that my thoughts are his thoughts.

Now, look at what Srila Prabhupada, had to say about democracy.

Prabhupada taught Chris Butler the guru business.

[www.google.com]

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[harekrishnarevolution.wordpress.com]

(Corboy: Prabhupada accumulated tax exempt wealth thanks to democracies. He n benefited from democracies which allowed him
entry visas, residence visas, protected him while there and granted him something that Prabhupada would not permit in an ideal 'Vedic' kingdom -- free speech
which dissents from the values of the society granting him not just safety but hospitality.)

What is the value of this democracy? All fools and rascals!

Quote

By His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktived?nta Swami Prabhup?da

hiranyakasipu-prahlad

The king’s duty is, as representative of Krishna, to make every citizen Krishna conscious. Then he is doing nice duty. And because the monarchs did not do so – therefore now monarchy is abolished everywhere. So again the monarchs, where there is monarchy, little, at least show of monarchy, just like here in England there is, actually if the monarch becomes Krishna conscious, actually becomes representative of Krishna, then the whole face of the kingdom will change. That is required.

Our Krishna consciousness movement is for that purpose. We don’t very much like this so-called democracy. What is the value of this democracy? All fools and rascals! They vote for another fool and rascal, and he becomes prime minister, or this or that. Just like in so many cases. That is not good for the people. We are not for this so-called democracy because they are not trained. If the king is trained… That was the system of monarchy. Just like Yudhisthira Maharaja or Arjuna or anyone. All the kings. were called r?jarshi.

Raja, king means, he is not only king. He is a great rishi, saintly person, just like Maharaja Yudhisthira or Arjuna. They’re saintly persons. They are not ordinary, like this drunkard king, that “I have got so much money. Let me drink and let there be dancing of the prostitute.” Not like that. They were rishi. Although they were king, they were rishis. That kind of king wanted, r?jarshi.

Then people will be happy.

In Bengali there is a proverb, r?j?ra p?pe r?ja nasta grhin? doshe grhastha bhrashta (?). In grhastha life, in household life, if the wife if the wife is not good, then nobody will be happy in that home. Similarly, in a kingdom, if the king is impious, then everyone will suffer. This is the problem.

[London July 24, 1973 Bg. 1.31]

Re: Terasem Movement Foundation

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From the outside, it looks like a normal building, but inside it looks like an ashram—and most people, including employees, call it that.

Quote

People in the Terasem community upload details of their daily lives and thoughts in hopes of recreating themselves one day, or just leave a lasting legacy in the future digital world. A few hundred people have mindfiles, and their information is kept securely on servers at Terasem, and backed up elsewhere around the world.

[www.techinsider.io]

Nothing is going to be 100% secure, their servers could be hacked, an insider might leak files, all sorts of things can go wrong.

Also, committing that much of their moment to moment lives easily could bond them to the larger group and leader.

All that personal info and bonding could be used against them. And it could make it much harder for people to leave. This is a huge investment to make.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Bernie sanders as been winning and winning delegates lately
and Tulsi is right in the team supporting Sanders .
I wonder if Butler is telling Tulsi ...tell Bernie this ...and tell Bernie that
tell him to do that move ....just wondering how JAGAT GURU is playing that game
If Bernie get the nomination ....there will be a big reward for the BUTLER TULSI
team ....He as been dreaming all his life to influence politicians at the highest level ..its happening
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