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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 1:11 pm
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liminal

[www.bialabate.net] This was just published, a thorough examination of Ayahuasca Healings. The author initially wondered if Trinity and crew were just naive, now she believes they are deliberately manipulative.

Hello, I am the author of the above article. I discovered this thread (and this forum) while doing research for it.

I wouldn't characterize the article as a thorough examination of Ayahuasca Healings, though. It is only a thorough examination of their chances for receiving a religious freedom exemption through the DEA, a process which they have now entered.

Safety will be a key point in the DEA's decision. If people write to them about the reasons why they believe Ayahuasca Healings is unsafe, that could make the decisive difference in whether AH gets legal permission to operate (and to open 50 more centers around the country) or not.

Communication on these matters appears to be through snailmail only. The address is:

Joseph P. Rannazzisi
Deputy Assistant Administrator
Office of Diversion Control
Drug Enforcement Administration
8701 Morissette Drive
Springfield, VA 22152

The DEA believes that their mission is to protect public safety, so the question of safety is the paramount question for them. If they have enough reason to believe this is unsafe, they will reject AH's petition to be legalized.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 2:09 pm
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THANK YOU GAYLE

I HAVE READ ALL THAT I COULD FIND THAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN ON TRINITY ..
YOUR CONTRIBUTION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO STOP THE MASS MARKETING OF CHRISTOPHER GUZMAN ..YOU ARE A VERY PROFESSIONAL PERSON
IF YOU PUT TOGETHER SOME SORT OF PETITION TO SEND TO MR JOSEPH P . RANNAZZISI
I WOULD SIGN IT IN A MINUTE ...I AM SURE BY WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAT THIS GUY IS A DANGER TO SOCIETY

AND CORBOY YOU ARE SO RIGHT ...THE PROCESS OF TRINITY HAVING ONE ONE ONE TALK WITH PEOPLE ASKING FOR THEIR MONEY BACK ....IS ANOTHER OF HIS TRICKS
POTENTIAL PARTICIPANTS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ENDURE ANOTHER SALE PICTH FROM THIS GUY
....IF YOU HAVE TO TALK TO HIM BE FEARLESS ..AND BUSINESS LIKE AS IF YOU ASKING YOUR MONEY BACK FOR A TRANSACTION GONE WRONG AT AMERICAN EXPRESS .

HE AS PUT PEOPLE IN DANGER OF BEING NAB BY THE DEA ...OR THE POLICE
PEOPLE IN THIS "RETREAT" COULD HAVE HAD A POLICE RECORD THAT WOULD HAVE FALLOW THEM ALL THEIR LIFE ...HE IS REALLY A CON MAN MASCARADING AS
MR SPIRITUAL AYAWASKA GURU
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 2:25 pm
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Hi,

Individual letters would probably work better than a petition. Of course, don't talk about the danger of being nabbed by the DEA or the police. The safety issue to talk about is whether it is safe to take ayahuasca in group settings under unqualified, inexperienced people.

Now, we don't want to say that ayahuasca is nothing but dangerous and that it should be banned for anyone to use. Ayahuasca is a powerful therapeutic tool in the right hands, and there should be open paths for research and for legitimate therapy. But if a precedent were set that anyone could call themselves a "church" and be able to serve ayahuasca to the public indiscriminately, for money, that would be a nightmare. Not only because people can suffer psychological harm in the wrong hands; it is also that ayahuasca can make people deeply suggestible (which is one of the reasons it can have profound therapeutic effects in the right hands) so putting it freely into the hands of manipulative cult leaders would REALLY be a disaster. (There are already some ayahuasca cults around, but they are mostly small and underground because of the legality issues.)
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 3:54 pm
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Gayle, thank you for the correction and for all your work.

I'll help spread the word about contacting the DEA and will write them also.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 4:37 pm
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Luminal and Gayle as you contact the DEA ...make sure to tell them that
Guzman call CITIES ..A REGULAR JOBS ...AND MATERIAL NECESSITIES

HE CALL THESES THE BEAST .....That shows how much TNT understand about spirituality ....not much ...he is even a danger to school kids ...freaking NUT.
and he want to open 50 centers around the USA ....DANGEROUS DELUSIONAL PSEUDO CHAMAN...I saw a video of him quoting OSHO ...the mad guru who had 100 Rolls Royces .....he just take a little of this and a little of that ....is soup is quickly spoiling
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 4:58 pm
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When you write to the DEA, just stick to the safety issue. Don't talk about cults, delusional pseudo-shamans, fake spirituality or any of that. That is outside of their purview and would muddy the issue for them. Make it clear and simple, just talk about the unsafety of AH's lack of qualifications and say that it would be dangerous public policy to set a precedent to let just anyone, with no qualifications, offer ayahuasca to the general public in the name of "religion." But ayahuasca does have potential therapeutic benefits in the right hands, so we don't want to close the door on that.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 9:33 pm
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No 1 Dear Gayle ...
What religion does Guzman fallow anyway ..
Santo Daime is very Christian ...the name of Jesus is ever present in the ceremonies ....Guzman talk about Osho and a hundred other things ...there is no ONE religion in that guy

NO 2 I think that if Guzman cannot come to the USA right now he will possibly organise ceremonies in south America ...and have people travel to PERU or Mexico and give sell pitches via YOUTUBE...and get money somehow from those people .

So i have made a video in my limited spanish asking the police and the imigration officers of south American countries to check him out good if he shows up at their borders ...and do a good interrogation

[www.youtube.com]

Ayawaska might be legal ...but making money in those countries is not ..on a tourist visa anyway ...
So help me emailing this video to various immigrations in Peru Equadoe ext ..
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 4, 2016, 11:55 pm
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Hello dabcult --

1) Guzman doesn't follow any religion, he makes it up as he goes along. He thinks that calling AH a "religion" and a "church" and a "faith" is enough. The DEA will look at that too -- they (and the courts) are not permitted to consider the content of a religion's beliefs but they can look at the sincerity -- whether the religion is just made up to get around the law.

But it won't carry any weight for people to write them about AH's religiousness or lack of it. People always criticize other people's religion, and it also makes it sound like the letter-writer is just prejudiced because they have different religious beliefs. What will have more impact is just if you describe what you have already talked about seeing in Daime works when people have problems, and emphasize how these inexperienced AH people are not qualified to handle people who may have problems in ceremony. That will carry a lot of weight. Safety, or lack of it, is the issue that can sink AH's attempt to become legal.

2) If Trinity organizes ceremonies in Peru (which he has helped to do before) he will be just one out of hundreds doing that. The ayahuasca scene is completely unregulated in Peru. And there are all kinds of ways he could set up some kind of financial arrangement that would not look like he is working illegally. But he won't make nearly as much money there. He wanted to come to the US where the market is completely open and he thought he could have a monopoly here, too. That can be stopped.
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Henry V Act 4 Scene One

April 5, 2016, 6:53 am
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One can substitute 'guru' for 'king' but there is this terrifying difference:

Subjects of gurus are convinced the guru has cured them -- and like drug addicts forget all else except remaining close as possible to the guru - never mind friendships and children.

Unlike a king, a guru can used a diseased line of argument to convince us that we are not our bodies.

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And what have kings that privates have not too,
Save ceremony, save general ceremony?

And what art thou, thou idol ceremony?
What kind of god art thou, that suffer’st more
Of mortal griefs than do thy worshippers?
What are thy rents? What are thy comings in?

O ceremony, show me but thy worth!
What is thy soul of adoration?
Art thou aught else but place, degree, and form,
Creating awe and fear in other men,
Wherein thou art less happy, being feared,
Than they in fearing?

What drink’st thou oft, instead of homage sweet,
But poisoned flattery? Oh, be sick, great greatness,
And bid thy ceremony give thee cure!

Think’st thou the fiery fever will go out
With titles blown from adulation?
Will it give place to flexure and low bending? (Groveling, kneeling, prostrations)

Canst thou, when thou command’st the beggar’s knee,
Command the health of it? No, thou proud dream,
That play’st so subtly with a king’s repose.

Which is why Butler has had his private coronation and donned the hollow crown:

The tinfoil hat, the tinfoil walls, and in its midst, that orb of sovereignty --

The White Plastic Ball.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 8:10 am
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I am Canadian ...so My opinion might not matter to the DEA .

i would like to know what is the deal with Guzman not being able to enter the USA
is that temporary ...is it permanent ? How can we help to make it permanent.?
Maybee Gayle ...or someone else on this forum should contact the US immigration to make sure he is out for good of the USA .And important testimonial like the one from this Canadian ex army guy should be included in advising the DEA .
..................................................................................

Ayahuasca Healings of Elbe, WA , led by Christopher "Trinity" de Guzman and Marc Shackman, has removed this comment from one of their Youtube videos. Fortunately someone managed to grab a copy. This is part of a testimony from a man in Canada, a military vet, who found himself badly exploited by Trinity financially and labor wise, and who fortunately got himself free.

I've spaced this quote for ease of reading:

Interesting .... Didn't see Trinity once during the TeePee build. Must be nice and warm in that house you're having people paint and renovate for you while you're in France... What's even more interesting is if you don't little digging on Trinity, you'll discover a few of his entrepreneurial videos discussing idea on how to get other people to create and run your business for you... Its great that there is the freedom to express something like this and the idea looks great on paper - don't get me wrong - but the distribution of work is what definitely turned me off.

I signed up as a volunteer, went through a few interviews and skype calls. I was to go down there from BC Canada, pay my way there and back; cover all my costs, and I was expected to bring tools and all this other expensive gear, and because of my military history - it was established that a role I could fill would be that of a medic - so that's more supplies I was expected to bring - more money... After I got a truck, specifically for this ggroup, and after I went out and bought camping gear and tools, a generator, heaters and tons of other crap - I was informed just weeks before I was to depart, that I had to first pay the fee to sit with them and take aya with them as anyone else would that comes to the retreat... Which is 2,000 or so Canadian - probably more with the conversion to American.

So.. Here I am. A veteran of the Canadian army of 10 years, offering all my experience and training, coming with a truck, all this extra gear - and just before I go I'm told I need to pay to sit with them - and after I take aya with them then they'll decide if I'm a good fit for the group and can even be a volunteer to begin with.

You'd think that someone would be given it free? I wasn't even interested in that - I just wanted to be a part of something - but if you're thinking you want to do this, you gotta pay to play - and not only that, Trinity never spoke to me once, never met the guy saw the guy or anything - and all of his emails were mass emails, very generalized and he was always away tripping his balls off while everyone else is doing the work - like poor Marc in the video - the best part is I have a daughter - who i haven't seen in the last 5 years because of my military service - now that I'm out I can see her every day - so I expressed to them that I need to be able to be home often to maintain a relationship with her - but even after explaining that, the expectation was that I would commit to 2-3 weeks every month to them and be there in the states - Which would have looked like this Pack the truck 6 hour drive Unload Stay 3 weeks (after paying my 2,000+ dollar "minimum" donation - which baffles me a little because months ago, Trinity said something about only "asking" for a "donation" of around 800 dollars for volunteers) go home 1 week Drive back 6 hours to Canada (and I was told when you cross the border don't tell them you're going to take ayahuasca or help build this) And I wasn't even allowed to know the location lol

So figure out the cost of gas there and back in an 8 cyl truck. Then 3 weeks buying food.The work involved.Plus the 2,000+

Money isn't the issue. The issue is the "volunteers" are actually the customers and the workers- it's a genius business model I'll give him that... But red flags started going up the first time he got back to everyone in one of his emails saying he needed to get different land - one that would have a house on it this time for him - Notice how far away they put the teepees in relation to the cabin/house? Who do you think gets to sleep there?"
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 10:03 am
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dabcult
I am Canadian ...so My opinion might not matter to the DEA .

That doesn't matter at all. They are not looking for your vote. They are not even elected officials. They will be looking for evidence of whether this is safe or not.


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i would like to know what is the deal with Guzman not being able to enter the USA

What I heard is that the border officials, after looking him up on the internet, decided that he was illegally running a business in the
US.

By the way, in this forum is there ever a point where you can just post without waiting all day for it to be approved? I can understand wanting to keep out trolls and flamers, but is there never a point where someone figures out that you are not a troll or a flamer and lets you just post?
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 10:15 am
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Just wanted to add (since I can't figure out how to edit a post that is waiting to be moderated) -- the DEA is not going to care about how Trinity treats his employees. Safety will be their main concern. The issue to stick to is why AH is unsafe.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 10:30 am
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Dear Gayle you that seems to know more about the letters of the law ...should post on this forum ...The main points that should be included in a letter to the DEA
like NO 1
No 2
No 3 and so on ...and we can then take some of those points and
and put them in our own words ...so that we do not waste our time and DEA times
writing stuff that as no utilities for exposing Guzman

for exemple I tought religious belief made a difference but you say No
So is it only a question of safety ?
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 10:59 am
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No 1 -As far as Gayle being a approved to have immediate posting ...
whoever decide that should immediatly make sure she can post DIRECTLY
she is a very important contact for this forum .

No 2...I have contacted the US immigration dept to brief them a little more on who is that TNT GUZMAN ....I was told on the phone that the more people that make report on him ...and what he plan to do in the USA the more difficult for him to ever enter the USA ...Just google US imigration repoting aliens ...or possible drug dealers ....and its all anonymous..i do not mind for Guzman to know that i am taking as many legal steps to ban him from the USA ...as I can .
I might even knock at his door when I know he is home .
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 12:32 pm
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Along with reading through what Gayle has written on this thread, including:

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Safety will be a key point in the DEA's decision. If people write to them about the reasons why they believe Ayahuasca Healings is unsafe, that could make the decisive difference in whether AH gets legal permission to operate (and to open 50 more centers around the country) or not.

Communication on these matters appears to be through snailmail only. The address is:

Joseph P. Rannazzisi
Deputy Assistant Administrator
Office of Diversion Control
Drug Enforcement Administration
8701 Morissette Drive
Springfield, VA 22152

The DEA believes that their mission is to protect public safety, so the question of safety is the paramount question for them. If they have enough reason to believe this is unsafe, they will reject AH's petition to be legalized.

Concerns about safety can also be sent in online to DEA [www.dea.gov] - choose Seattle as the field office.

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The DEA believes that their mission is to protect public safety, so the question of safety is the paramount question for them. If they have enough reason to believe this is unsafe, they will reject AH's petition to be legalized.

I send in tips and also wrote them via snailmail. We can all work together, focus on the theme of safety when contacting the DEA.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 12:48 pm
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U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) tip form [www.ice.gov]

DEA (choose Seattle as field office) [www.dea.gov]

Send safety concerns to:

Joseph P. Rannazzisi
Deputy Assistant Administrator
Office of Diversion Control
Drug Enforcement Administration
8701 Morissette Drive
Springfield, VA 22152
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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

April 5, 2016, 2:05 pm
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HA! Touche’ Corboy.




When the local Butler goons come a callin’...

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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 3:25 pm
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dabcult
for exemple I tought religious belief made a difference but you say No
So is it only a question of safety ?

The content of their religious beliefs cannot be considered in these cases. What the courts and the DEA can consider is whether it is a fake religion made up to get around the law. But that is not what we should get involved in. The DEA can figure that part out for themselves.

It is the safety issue that will matter to them. But we don't want to imply that ayahuasca is merely dangerous and should be banned, it can be a very valuable therapeutic tool. And people who use it alone as a form of self-therapy may have frightening or difficult experiences, but lasting harm is rare (and lasting benefit is possible). But group ceremonies are a different story, people can be harmed in incompetently run large group ceremonies. We don't want to say anything that would contribute to closing the door on legitimate uses of ayahuasca, or encourage them to go after individuals using it independently, but specify we are talking about the potential problems of large group ceremonies without competent leadership.
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 5:52 pm
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This is the latest video of TNT Guzman
[www.youtube.com]

Mostly in spanish where he seem to have promise this poor old guy(shaman he tells us ) and daughter to bring them to the USA to do ceremonies .
He surely as not told them that he himself cannot get into the USA right now ...and that there are many people that will try their best to keep him out of the USA ....I also learn that he is leasing a place in Peru to have this "shaman"
do ceremonies near Machu Pichu .....will the USA followers of TNT be invited to come to PERU and for large DONATION of of money be invited to those ceremonies ..?

This video is so sad in a way here TNT is dangling promises to an uneducated man of travel to the USA and probaly lots of $$$...when he himself cannot even get in the USA ..
So much for universal love, peace, brotherhood and sisterhood ...and the great benefits of mother Ayawaska in the hands of charlatan .
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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

April 5, 2016, 9:45 pm
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I just got word from a reliable source that AH has not yet submitted their DEA petition.
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