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Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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gayle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just got word from a reliable source that AH has
> not yet submitted their DEA petition.

This is very good to know, thank you.

Back on March 8 Trinity wrote "We are working closely with an amazing attorney who is helping us receive our DEA Exemption."
[ayahuascahealings.com] This and other statements could incorrectly lead people to believe that AH was just a week or so away from a DEA exemption. This is false. [www.bialabate.net]

In a recent marketing email [archive.aweber.com] Trinity claims AH will also be able to open in Mexico, once "we have a written statement from any local prosecuters, or the police".

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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I Know for sure that Trinity is sending mass email telling people that
they will be able to be taking ayahuasca in America if they join his church right now ...for only his church members will be able to attend ceremonies ..
If Gayle is right ....then it is a monumental scam ..by a guy who cannot even enter the USA ...

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Okay, I heard from someone with a connection that they just submitted their application yesterday.

Quote
dabcult
I Know for sure that Trinity is sending mass email telling people that
they will be able to be taking ayahuasca in America if they join his church right now ...for only his church members will be able to attend ceremonies ..
If Gayle is right ....then it is a monumental scam ..by a guy who cannot even enter the USA ...

Yes, it is a monumental scam. As I described in the article, even if they did have permission to serve ayahuasca to the public, membership in a church has nothing to do with it.

But don't get into this if you write to the DEA, they can figure it out for themselves. (And getting into too many different things could make it sound like you have a personal grudge.) Just stick to the point that unqualified or incompetent people running large group ayahuasca ceremonies is not safe. Especially since they actually advertise on their web site that they can help people with PTSD, suicidal thoughts, etc. -- ayahuasca does have the potential to help with things like that, but only in skilled hands, and it can't be done in huge groups of twenty or forty or a hundred people. And these people have no competence for that kind of therapy.

The DEA doesn't know much about ayahuasca, it is relatively new on their radar, so they will be receptive to guidelines about how to think about it. We don't want to close the door to legitimate research and therapy -- ayahuasca can be an extremely valuable therapeutic tool in the right hands -- so you want to distinguish legitimate therapeutic and religious use from exploitation.

Since this is a forum about cults, I would guess that a priority here would be the fact that ayahuasca has a huge potential for exploitation by unscrupulous cult leaders (especially since many people would come who are looking for help with psychological problems, vulnerable and desperate people who would trustingly and perhaps tragically put themselves in the wrong hands). If the legal door were opened for any cult leader to start serving ayahuasca to people, especially in large groups, the kind of psychological damage you see happening to cult victims could become so much greater. So this, I imagine, would be the priority concern for people here, and it could be presented as a safety concern for the DEA, since safety is their main priority as well.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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I would like to give a little background. I have been a moderator of the Ayahuasca forums for twelve years (and a member a few years longer) and (besides living for several years with Amazonian Indians, being a member of the Santo Daime church, and being a member of a network of academic researchers who study ayahuasca from many different angles) have had a front row seat for many people's experiences with ayahuasca.

Most people who take ayahuasca ARE benefitted, some experience tremendous benefit and healing. From my experience, the number of people with bad outcomes may be only about 2-3%. Nevertheless, given that more and more people are trying ayahuasca, probably tens of thousands since the ayahuasca tourist boom started in earnest about a decade ago, that is not an insignificant number, and the depth of the harm to those few people can be severe.

(AH has reportedly been receiving 100 inquiries a day, or 3000 a month, and they plan to open enough centers to accommodate these numbers, so using that informal percentage means that perhaps 60 to 90 people a month would leave with severe or worsened psychological problems.)

In my observation, practically all bad outcomes happen in poorly run groups. People who take it alone very rarely have lasting problems, as do people who take it in properly run therapeutic, shamanic or religious settings. (And, with all respect to dabcult, speaking as a fellow fardada, not all Santo Daime churches are benign. Each church is different, and some individual churches ARE cultlike and harmful to their members. It is observing this, firsthand, that has made me so alarmed at the potential for disaster if cult leaders in this country were to get legal access to use ayahuasca in the name of "religious freedom.")

As far as ayahuasca tourism in Peru, people who go seeking "authentic shamanic experiences" don't realize that the ayahuasca retreats are not authentic at all, even if they employ local curanderos. It has never been traditional in the Amazon to administer ayahuasca to large groups of people overseen by a shaman. The indigenous shamans work with one or a few people at a time, and usually their patients don't even drink the ayahuasca, or only a little. Even the genuine Amazonian curanderos have no training or experience in handling large groups. (Notoriously, many of these curanderos, authentic or not, have discovered how easy it is to seduce their starry-eyed gringa clients who are in the afterglow of the medicine, a state in which you can be feeling completely in love with the entire world, and easily convinced that the ceremony leader is some kind of incredible spiritual being -- indeed, once again, I shudder at the thought of cult leaders getting hold of ayahuasca.) I would still say that probably 97% of people who take ayahuasca even in those settings probably experience benefit. But the maybe 3% who experience quite the opposite are not to be ignored.

Trinity displays the starry-eyed in-love-with-the-world feeling that is common among neophytes on the ayahuasca path. Just seeing that initially alarmed me, that the project was being led by infants. Infants who would oversee other infants. That was alarming enough. But the thing is, when people are in that state, or that stage, it is extremely easy to manipulate them and get them to focus that state on the leader and fall in love with the leader. I'm sure that most cults are already led by leaders who know how to make their followers fall in love with them.

It is also extremely common for neophytes on the ayahuasca path to experience a "messianic call" and believe that they have some special destiny to save the world. Usually this is transitory. It is so common that it is almost a normal phase to go through. But if you put ayahuasca in the hands of someone who already has messianic tendencies, it can totally blow them up.

So there are both of these ways that ayahuasca has the potential to dangerously exacerbate the problem of cultism, if it were to be made legal for anyone who started a "religion" to give it to people under the name of "religious freedom."

Ayahuasca is in the main a highly beneficial therapeutic tool, but, like most technologies, it has the potential to be misused. Giving cult leaders legal permission to use it in the name of religion would open the door to the most grotesque misuse of ayahuasca. We don't want the DEA to think that ayahuasca is mainly dangerous to people and slam the door on it. In fact, it would work in favor of ayahuasca being permitted its proper use if the DEA were to see that people both in and out of the ayahuasca community can differentiate between safe and unsafe use.

And it is a simple and straightforward enough message, that it is unsafe for ayahuasca to be administered by unqualified people, especially in large groups. The burden of proof should be on the person who seeks to administer ayahuasca that they are qualified to do it, but the doors should be open to that. (In the long run, as legal doors are opened, it may be possible to form professional associations such as doctors and lawyers have to certify them).

It is a simple enough message to give to the DEA, that the AH people are unqualified to lead ayahuasca ceremonies, and that their practice, therefore, is unsafe.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

A former student of roach

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Quote

Workplace, an Ashram, or a Cult?
Inside the sexual harassment lawsuit against Jivamukti Yoga.

Slate/April 5, 2016

By Michelle Goldberg

[culteducation.com]

Quote

At Jivamukti, Lauer-Manenti was known as Lady Ruth, an honorific bestowed on her by Geshe Michael Roach, a tantric Buddhist most well-known for leading a three-year silent retreat in the Arizona desert at which one of his followers died. Lady Ruth was quirky and ethereal, heedless of pedestrian personal boundaries; former teachers I spoke with describe her probing for details of their romantic relationships and casually stripping in the studio offices to change clothes for class. Besides being an eminent yoga instructor, she’s an artist with an MFA from Yale. Faurot saw her as “spiritually advanced.”

Tax Payers Indirectly Subsidized This Behavior

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Those who were born into the Butler cult and who went short on food should consider having a discussion about this with a knowledgeable physician. Here are some matters to consider:


(Glaring) Persons who starve in utero or in very early life have been shown to develop permanent impairments in immune function.

[www.google.com]

[www.google.com]

There are some indications that this may also increase risk of developing type 2 diabetes later in life.

[www.google.com]

A cold that might make one of us sick for a week could, for them, turn into bronchitis or pneumonia. Influenza outbreaks may hit you harder.

All this to service megalomaniac children in adult bodies -- who resent and devalue the genuine needs of real children entrusted to their care.

The leaders of the Jeffs cult had utter contempt for the US government and for outsiders. Yet they looked for ways to exploit both.

A few quotations. Now...let us ask if this reminds you of anyone you know - wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Quote


[fox2now.com]

Former members of polygamist sect led by Warren Jeffs reveal secrets in FBI documents

“There was so much class distinction and shunning of people,” said a former cook for the family of Bishop Lyle Jeffs, the prophet’s brother and right-hand man. She spoke of seeing shopping carts full of meat and turkeys earmarked for the bishop’s family while others made do with rice and beans.

The new social structure came about, as so many things do in the FLDS, when prophet Warren Jeffs had a revelation. This one came on December 12, 2011, about four months after he started serving the life sentence in Texas.

He told followers that God ordered him to create a United Order of members most worthy of heaven. And, before the month was up, his brother Lyle was lining up members at the old elementary school and quizzing them about their lives and faith to determine who was, indeed, worthy. They were instructed to hand over everything they owned and told the church would provide for their earthly needs.

The prophet — and there is little doubt Warren Jeffs is still the FLDS prophet — chooses who will be included in the United Order. His brothers, Lyle and Seth, serve as “bishops” and carry out the prophet’s wishes at FLDS compounds along the Utah-Arizona border and in the Black Hills of South Dakota.

The cook, Allene Jeffs Steed, told the FBI last year that while she prepared feasts of lobster and shrimp for the bishop, her own children “lived off toast.” She used duct tape to hold her kids’ shoes together. And hers wasn’t the only FLDS family to go without.

“We were literally starving,” Sheryl Barlow told the FBI in February. She lived in a house with 40 people and said they subsisted on noodles, brown rice, tomato juice and, when they were lucky, bread or a few containers of yogurt.

Federal prosecutors allege that food for the families of church leaders was ordered separately from stores such as Costco, while other members were left to shop at a warehouse of pooled resources called “the bishop’s storehouse.” Often, there wasn’t enough in the storehouse for everyone, and those at the bottom of the FLDS pecking order had to settle for whatever was left.

“We had little children that were starving, big people that were starving,” Barlow said. “It wasn’t enough to sustain.”

Fear and small numbers have long silenced the “apostates,” as the FLDS calls its turncoats. They’d be cut off from their families, shunned and harassed. Now, there are just too many of them. In some cases, entire families are leaving the fold

Quote

As that trial ended, another case began in Salt Lake City with criminal charges filed accusing 11 FLDS members — including Lyle and Seth Jeffs — of engaging in a food stamp swindle and money-laundering scheme that raked in some $12 million.

“Bleeding the beast,” the FLDS calls it. The “beast,” of course, is the federal government.

While families entitled to the food stamps went hungry, federal prosecutors allege, church leaders funneled food purchased with federal assistance into their own pantries or illegally exchanged food stamps for cash to plow into church projects — including publication of the prophet’s 854-page book of prison revelations, titled “Jesus Christ, Message to All Nations.” One witness who worked in the front office estimated the printing costs at $250,000.

Cash was obtained by ringing up ghost “purchases” at two FLDS-owned stores in Short Creek, according to a federal indictment accusing bishops Lyle and Seth Jeffs and nine other church members in a scheme to fraudulently obtain food stamp cards and launder money. At times, the FLDS stores’ food stamp sales rivaled those at Costco or Walmart, federal authorities alleged. They say the laundered cash was used on big-ticket items such as a Ford F-350 truck ($30,236), a John Deere tractor ($13,561) and $16,978 in paper products, to list a few.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Dear Gayle

Most people who take ayahuasca ARE benefitted, some experience tremendous benefit and healing. From my experience, the number of people with bad outcomes may be only about 2-3%. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU GET THESE NUMBERS ?
Long term effect on the brain ...we do not know ...what happen in the jungles of Peru Equador and Brasil ...we do not know ? It might be much higher ....
I have also see ...people that are long time leaders in the Santo Daime people who have drank gallons and gallons of the brew ...that have become overcome by
lust and started to use their "LEADER" PADRIHO ....position to abuse sexully many many gulible woman.

TNT GUZMAN is sending mass emails telling people that they have to join his new church if they want to attend Ayawaska ceremonies .
He does not give any Theological points ...about the church
Would you join a church ...if you do not know what are the beliefs of the church?This goes to prove that the so called church is only a front to serve AYAHUASKA...and make money ...he is inviting people to join a church that does not even register in the USA ...what a scammer

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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I'd like to add more about ayahuasca, especially as it relates to cultism.

Ayahuasca is different from recreational drugs and drugs of abuse, including alcohol, in that those normally make one feel good when one is under the effects, and then one feels bad afterward. Ayahuasca, on the other hand, is at best an unpleasant experience. It can be a physical and mental ordeal. You have to have courage and maybe a touch of masochism to do it.

But on the other side of the ordeal is the euphoric afterglow. This comes from both physiological reasons and psychological reasons (facing and purging inner demons, etc). For clinically depressed people, it can be the only time that they have experienced joy and happiness since they can remember. While this afterglow doesn't last more than a few days, just having the experience to help their brain remember what joy actually feels like can be a miracle for a clinically depressed person.

In this afterglow, which is most intense immediately after the ceremony, you feel in love with the whole world and with everyone you see. You love and trust everyone. In this open state, you could be extremely susceptible to cultist brainwashing (as long as it is all washed down with hugs and smiles and love-love-love). It's scary, to me, to think of ayahuasca being in the hands of cult leaders.

This, I feel, is the danger here, the real safety issue. But, as I am sure that everyone here knows, the law has nothing to say about cultism. The First Amendment prohibits any legal discrimination based on religious beliefs.

So the only safety issue that can be brought up to the DEA is the issue of unqualified leaders who are unequipped to handle crises that can come up and who can even make people's problems worse. Which is indeed a genuine problem. People do -- rarely -- get traumatized in badly run ceremonies.

But between me and the cult forum, I don't feel that is the most important danger. The real danger would be to let cult leaders get hold of this medicine. That is a very scary thought to me.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Christopher "Trinity" de Guzman, his "shaman" Marc Roland Shackman, and "medicine woman" Franziska Hoffman are unqualified to safely administer ayahuasca, especially in the large groups that Trinity plans.

I hope many of us do as Gayle suggests in communicating our safety concerns to the DEA.

I myself am not part of any ayahuasca communities so I am relatively agnostic on that, although in general I trend towards harm reduction / decriminalize / scientific studies / professional organization licensing and oversight.

I want to help prevent Trinity, the manipulative messianic infant, and his crew, from further potentially damaging people by how they administer ayahuasca, along with their other problematic behaviors.

So with the DEA we can keep our message clear and concise. Our other concerns can be tackled in other arenas, reporting to other agencies, and discussing concerns online.

I and others have contacted Lewis County WA prosecuter / sheriff / health department, WA state attorney general / department of health, federal DEA / immigration / border / internal revenue service. Canadian border / revenue. People who lost money have successfully had banks reverse charges and banks are investigating AH.

Over the months there have been good discussions online and excellent knowledgable articles posted.

Communicating our safety concerns about AH to the DEA could prevent AH from being granted an exemption. This would be a very good thing.

I view Trinity as a potentially destructive leader. I don't want him to be able to legally give people ayahuasca and by his actions cause harm.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Gayle thank you for laying this out in detail.

AH gets video testimonies from people who are in that afterglow and uses this to promote their business.

Trinity may have a cultic hold on at least one of his inner circle already.


gayle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to add more about ayahuasca, especially
> as it relates to cultism.
>
> Ayahuasca is different from recreational drugs and
> drugs of abuse, including alcohol, in that those
> normally make one feel good when one is under the
> effects, and then one feels bad afterward.
> Ayahuasca, on the other hand, is at best an
> unpleasant experience. It can be a physical and
> mental ordeal. You have to have courage and maybe
> a touch of masochism to do it.
>
> But on the other side of the ordeal is the
> euphoric afterglow. This comes from both
> physiological reasons and psychological reasons
> (facing and purging inner demons, etc). For
> clinically depressed people, it can be the only
> time that they have experienced joy and happiness
> since they can remember. While this afterglow
> doesn't last more than a few days, just having the
> experience to help their brain remember what joy
> actually feels like can be a miracle for a
> clinically depressed person.
>
> In this afterglow, which is most intense
> immediately after the ceremony, you feel in love
> with the whole world and with everyone you see.
> You love and trust everyone. In this open state,
> you could be extremely susceptible to cultist
> brainwashing (as long as it is all washed down
> with hugs and smiles and love-love-love). It's
> scary, to me, to think of ayahuasca being in the
> hands of cult leaders.
>
> This, I feel, is the danger here, the real safety
> issue. But, as I am sure that everyone here
> knows, the law has nothing to say about cultism.
> The First Amendment prohibits any legal
> discrimination based on religious beliefs.
>
> So the only safety issue that can be
> brought up to the DEA is the issue of unqualified
> leaders who are unequipped to handle crises that
> can come up and who can even make people's
> problems worse. Which is indeed a genuine
> problem. People do -- rarely -- get traumatized
> in badly run ceremonies.
>
> But between me and the cult forum, I don't feel
> that is the most important danger. The real
> danger would be to let cult leaders get hold of
> this medicine. That is a very scary thought to me.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Quote
dabcult

Most people who take ayahuasca ARE benefitted, some experience tremendous benefit and healing. From my experience, the number of people with bad outcomes may be only about 2-3%. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU GET THESE NUMBERS ?
Long term effect on the brain ...we do not know

Well, I described my credentials for being able to make an educated guess. And there is a tremendous amount of academic research being done, including neurological research. I belong to a network of academic researchers on ayahuasca that includes several hundred people and a lot of discussion of research findings.

Quote
dabc
have also see ...people that are long time leaders in the Santo Daime people who have drank gallons and gallons of the brew ...that have become overcome by
lust and started to use their "LEADER" PADRIHO ....position to abuse sexully many many gulible woman.

Yes, I have heard about that, and that happens at the retreats in Peru and Ecuador as well (as I mentioned). That is a manifestation of how easy it is to take advantage of people in the afterglow. People are naturally gullible when they are in the afterglow state.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Yes, of course, both cults sound very similar in their swindling of the government. The fraud committed by both the Butler cult and the Jeffs cult are exactly the same. That even included the multiple wives scenario!

Both cults have “Not for Profit" status while a very small group of elites live a very nice life on the backs of those in the lower echelons.

And both cults exist to serve a very few at the top.
Meanwhile the little guys at the bottom are barely scraping by.
And still their devotion never wavers.
It boggles the mind.

This is also the blueprint for mind control and manipulation, the so-called Stockholm Syndrome.
Deprive someone of sleep- work them overtime and make sure they do not get the proper nutrition or medical care!
Pretty soon, you can control them at will and get them to do whatever you want.

I think ol' Warren Jeffs needs company....

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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And as far as long-term effects on the brain, one long-term change that has been shown has been an increase in serotonin receptors, which means that if the brain has limited serotonin, it can use it more efficiently. This is safer than antidepressants that increase serotonin itself, and is one of the reason that long-term ayahuasca use can create permanent improvement in many cases of clinical depression. There are hundreds of studies of ayahuasca and ayahuasca use, from many different angles -- psychology, neurology, sociology, and others -- and more research being done all the time.

Re: Eric Allen Bell

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I have been watching his Facebook, his Twitter account and most importantly his Global One site. This man is a cult leader. He has followers. These are not normal followers. These are people are are intensely loyal and believe him to be someone with some kind of important message or mission for the world. Anybody and look at see this for themselves.

Eric Bell is a classic cult leader. People follow him blindly and passionately. When he says that Islam has to be eradicated they all agree and spread his articles and videos. And when he says something about God or spirituality, they treat him like a guru. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

Evaluating a Yoga School or Ashram

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Make sure your yoga bliss is not built upon the misery of others and financial exploitation of others.

Here is a rule of thumb when pondering whether to get involved with a dharma teacher or yoga teacher:

Dharma teaching (which includes yoga) is meant to assist us to become aware of
our cravings so that we can question those cravings and become free in relation to our cravings, rather than being manipulated by those cravings.

IMO, a yoga or Dharma teacher should not behave or speak in ways that instill craving and discontent in students.

Quote

“Jivamukti gives you this antidote. You have something now. You’ve been in therapy, you’ve done all these things, but you’re still not healed,” she said. “You feel like you want a way to move forward with your life and transform, and they give you something. They give you something you can dedicate your whole life to.”

Whether it happened or not, this statement could instill discontent in many students, then hold out the yoga school as the solution. It is merely sales talk of the kind used to make us discontented with our smartphones and think we must, must must, upgrade to New Phone Z which will make us Awesome People Living Extraordinary, Brilliant Lives.

Here is something else to consider when assessing whether to become involved at a yoga
school.

Is it what it seems?

Are newcomers and teacher trainees and staff members all on the same page?

Or is the yoga school akin to a secret ridden family?

Is yoga taught there by teachers who consider themselves workers among workers, members of the human family?

Or are upper level members and the teachers involved in a secret job -- venerating the leader as some sort of guru, with newcomers excluded from this?

No matter how you feel you have benefitted and been healed by lessons at a yoga studio, your good feelings are not clean if your good feelings are produced by
teachers who are keeping secrets from you, teachers who are competing with each other to flatter the guru, and who are putting themselves into debt so as to obey the teacher and take special classes.

[www.yahoo.com]

comments

[www.yahoo.com]

[www.slate.com]

“where the lines between workplace and ashram were blurred and where supervisors doubled as gurus"

Quote

At Jivamukti, Lauer-Manenti was known as Lady Ruth, an honorific bestowed on her by Geshe Michael Roach, a tantric Buddhist most well-known for leading a three-year silent retreat in the Arizona desert at which one of his followers died.

[culteducation.com]

Note that the yoga teacher is described as having formerly studied with "Geshe" Michael Roach, a most controversial neo Vajrayana guru

[culteducation.com]

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Dear Gayle I appreciate so much having your expert opinion on this forum THANK YOU ...As far as the benifits of ayahuaska for depression ...possibly truth
but if that depression is related to a diagnosis of being BI POLAR
(and as church leaders who are untrained in psychology diagnosis ) you never know if the new participant is only suffering from depression or is BI POLAR) in my experience the brew can make a person mood swing ...very deep in one direction and then very deep in another direction......not good ...there as been a few suicides in Argentina after Ayahuaska meetings ...(TNT and his gang have no expertise to diagnose a client ...its all brother and sister you will have "AMAZING " experiences
I think TNT favorite word is "AMAZING "
Santo Daime followers also use often large quantities of marijuana
The head of that church..padrino ALFREDO is known to be a daily user so are many other Padrinos like Paolo Roberto ( a dangerous guy )
But a few do not smoke at all ..like ALEX ...I certainly do not smoke anymore .
Padrino Sebastian unfortunately introduce pot in the 70 ies as part of the ritual ...Something that Maestro Ireneo (the orinator of the religion ) had prohibited (he is even on record to have help in the 1940 ies people stop smoking pot )
Now there is hundreds if not thousands Santo Daime followers that are addicted to pot(THEY CALL POT ..SANTA MARIA )...you cannot get addicted to ayahuasca ...put pot is another story .Second generation families in Santo Daime have many kids addicted to pot ...even in Mapia the headquaters of the church in Brasil
I have made a few videos to point that out ...But Santo Daime organisation as beg me to take them down ..and I did ...so as not to cause trouble in their legality in America ...but there is a big problem there ...pot just numb the mind .I also love many aspect of Santo Daime and my closet friends are part of the religion ...and I attend a church where pot is prohibited.
The legal churches in OREGON have a strick policy of NO pot in the church or around the church ...and leaders there do not smoke pot ....and when Brasilian leaders come to OREGON they are told very forcebly ....NO POT AROUND THE CHURCH
IT COULD CAUSE TROUBLE TO THEIR LEGAL STATUS ..
We do not know if TNT is using pot or not ....DO YOU KNOW ? He as talk about his ingestion of San Pedro ...and other psychidelics but does he smoke pot
will his church smoke pot ?I wonder what he will say to the US goverment about
the whats in and whats out as far as drugs in his church
PAYOTE..MUSHROOMS SAN PEDRO MARIJUANA all sacrements ?

Comments following the Slate article on Jivamukti

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The comments following this article are well worth reading.

The basics:

Quote

On thinking about it, the victim could probably easily win if she can prove the following:

1. Did the victim have good reason to believe that if she did not comply with Lady Ruth's requests, her career would be negatively affected?

2. Did Jivamukti make it clear, if unwritten, that dissent of any kind was intolerable?


If either statement is true, then Faurot has a solid case. Universities and corporations understand this so why shouldn't a stinky old ashram?

Quote

I've done yoga for more than 15 years, and studios like Jivamukti and Bikram and the teachers mentioned in this article have been a total turnoff for me. If everyone is crowding around someone and fighting to get into their class, I go to another class. When people are expressing wide-eyed devotion to the person beaming beatifically at the front of the room, that makes me look a lot more critically at the person who's at the front of the room. And if a yoga teacher isn't capable of bringing their own water to class, then I don't really know if they're capable of teaching me anything valuable.

Quote

These predators become experts at identifying the people who will be most vulnerable to their advances.

Quote

I was just going to post the same thing! The fact that power was given means nothing in this regard. To an extent, we've "given" power to many adults in our lives, like our bosses. This woman was in a teacher/boss capacity and manipulated an intimate relationship. The fact that the relationship was entered into willingly initially should have any bearing.

Corboy: How abusers work -- selecting exactly those persons who are less likely to
fight back or leave. The person who wrote the comment below is referencing stage
hypnotists, but this strategy is used by opportunistic Lotharios and at worst,
by molester types. One Zen master who later resigned in disgrace had bedded a
number of adult women students. The way he found his targets, was to test various women. One way he did it would be to walk alongside the lady and then bump into her. If she protested or vigorously moved away, that signaled that she was not not worth the risk.

If the lady didnt back away or protest, this signaled that she was potential prey.

Corboy can inform you that growing up terrified in a bad family can leave a person (male or female) afraid to speak up or fight back when someone tests them in this manner. One tends to go into a 'freeze' response.

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The problem is that abusers work like those entertainment hypnotists: they start with a simple request of say, 50 people, and find the 30 people suggestible enough to go along with it. Then they slowly escalate the requests, winnowing down the field from 30 people willing to do some of the requests, then 20 people willing to do half the requests, 10 people willing to do most of the requests, until they have three people who are so suggestible that they're willing to humiliate themselves because they're gullible enough to believe they're truly hypnotized.

Blaming the victim -- and rebuttals to that.

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It may be cultish, but Holly made a choice to worship there. Nobody forced her.

. 1 day ago
No nobody forced her. But remember, this was both her boss, and her pastor. A double dose of influence - and after spending all that money, can you blame her for being afraid to fall out of favor and therefore loose the good (well paying) shifts?
FlagShare2A Fine DisregardTarakanaLikeReply

The P
The P 23 hours ago
. Nobody forced her but it's not like they stated up front that her job would include creepy behavior from her supervisor/spiritual advisor as well as retribution if she spoke out against these abuses. There were clear negative impacts to her job as a result of her complaints against her supervisor. It's pretty clear cut sexual harassment and there are laws in place to hold people and businesses accountable for this behavior.
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Corboy: The worst victim bashing occurs when persons dare to speculate that the
victim suffered from some sort of psychiatric disorder.

Keep the eye on the ball, folks. The law. Again, one discussant summed it up:

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On thinking about it, the victim could probably easily win if she can prove the following:

1. Did the victim have good reason to believe that if she did not comply with Lady Ruth's requests, her career would be negatively affected?

2. Did Jivamukti make it clear, if unwritten, that dissent of any kind was intolerable?


If either statement is true, then Faurot has a solid case. Universities and corporations understand this so why shouldn't a stinky old ashram?

A thoughtful overview from 'Pine State'

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There have been plenty of scandals involving south Asian mystics and gurus. I spent some time at Satchidananda Ashram and was aware of the allegations, though not in depth, against its founder before I went to stay for an internship program. Coming from a Protestant Christian background, guru worship never felt right to me, but my experience there actually made me ambivalent when I did learn more about the allegations. On one hand, I get annoyed with people who think that woman have nothing better to do with their energy than falsely accuse others of sexual misconduct toward them. On the other hand, the competition for closeness to the guru had to make me wonder whether jealousy could lead to the accusations. (To be clear, I had no personal contact with Satchidananda, just the monks and nuns conducting the program.) After I learned the extent of the allegations, my first instinct took over, but there were good and spiritually gifted people there (who were also betrayed, IMO) and it didn't make me devalue my experiences there.


The only difference I see is that this is happening in a newer generation of U.S. yogic culture that is in upscale studios and not spartan monasteries. The offenders seem to be western teachers. I don't doubt that guru worship creates a setting that is ripe for letting unethical people commit sexual abuse. The desire to turn yoga into an exercise program has made westerners forget that it's a spiritual practice. That could be a good thing for the many who need it, but it holds the same dangers that deference to religious authority figures has generated for many religions.

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Human Kindness Foundation in Durham N.C, which is an ashram-style commune based on helping prisoners was exposed when their founder/leader and guru Bo Lozoff was found to be sleeping with just about everyone working there.

(URL inserted by Corboy -- [www.indyweek.com]

Bo died in a motorcycle crash not too long after the sexual escapades were exposed and the place shut down. It re-opened after his death and is still operating today. He had required the workers to give up all personal wealth/property and devote themselves entirely to the cult.

Look at the history of Kripalu Yoga Center. The contrast between the bare-walled cells that the students/disciples slept in versus the beautifully appointed house the guru built for himself is pretty striking.

Ironically, after guru was unmasked as serial sexual predator, many Kripalu-ites joined up with John Friend, who, of course, turned out to have the same predilection for sleeping with his youngest, hottest students.
\

(Corboy. Damn, it. Decades ago, I donated in support of Kindness House. I even attended a couple of Bo Lozoff's lectures. Am very, very sad that he turned into just another guru bully. I can tell you that Bo's first book, "We are All Doing Time" was and is, a charming and delightful read. And...it does put Bo Lozoff in a very good light. Must tell you that prisoners are as vulnerable as elders and young children. They dared not refuse Bo, or they'd lose probation and be 'violated' back to prison and with bad marks in their records.)

Loyal Love, Anguished Testimony -The Two Faces Bo Lozoff

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Prisoners are as vulnerable a group as elders and young children.

One is sentenced to do time in a prison. One is not supposed to be
sentenced to be a tortured slave to a megalomaniac.

(Corboy: In the 1990s, I sent checks to support this guy's ashram. Learning all this has made me heart broken.)

This article is lengthy but well worth reading.

The two faces of Bo Lozoff


[www.indyweek.com]

This disclosure about Neem Karoli Baba is very interesting. I was not aware that
the old coot abused his students and conned them to believe this was emancipatory.

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Lozoff's guru is the now-deceased Neem Karoli Baba, whom Lozoff claims to have seen in a dream when he was 8 but never met. Author Ram Dass described Baba in his biography, Miracle of Love, as a "master of abuse" who sheltered criminals but also had sex with his devotees. Baba tormented devotees with "playful" abuse such as making arbitrary and often conflicting demands and humiliating them publicly, as a means to "loosen the minds" of followers.

Catherine Wessinger, professor of The History of Religions and Women's Studies at Loyola University in New Orleans, said Baba's biography is relevant in analyzing Lozoff's behavior.

"He's got a spiritual calling, or he feels he does," she said of Lozoff. "He feels he's following his guru in terms of the service he was doing, but also it's possible he was following his guru in terms of sexual activity. He just seems blind to the fact that these women were not in a position of having much choice. Their choices were pretty limited, given their circumstances. He doesn't really see that."

The sexual power dynamic between Lozoff, a spiritual teacher, and the woman parolee and other female acolytes was at best unhealthy and at worst abusive, according to Wessinger and another religious studies expert.

Sexual yoga and tantra "can be abused," Wessinger said, adding, "Ideally, it's about two partners engaged in spiritual practice together. The inequality in these relationships [at Kindness House], and also the lack of knowledge on the part of the women, would have put them at a disadvantage. I don't see where it would have been spiritually beneficial to the women where they weren't equal partners in that sexual and spiritual relationship."

She said Lozoff's insistence that he was a "mystic," and not a teacher, was specious.

"Lozoff is claiming he's not a guru, he's not a teacher—he's claiming to be a mystic. Yet, how would these women have known anything about sexual energies, tantra, chakra, unless he taught it to them? That would have put him in a teacher role."

Timothy Miller, professor of Religious Studies at the University of Kansas and an expert on intentional communities, said a common problem among all faiths is for leaders to have unchecked power.

"I think it's bad for people to be in a position of leadership where not only do they have authority and power, but also they have people looking up to them and telling them how wonderful they are."

He said that, in an environment of adoration, it's hard to "keep your bearings."

"If he [Lozoff] set down these rules, and expected people to follow them, there's no reason to think he didn't intend to follow it himself, originally," he said. "But things change, and you get carried away. And people are sexual beings, men and women alike. It's a temptation that's there."

Miller said having a mystical calling is common across religious beliefs, and in the proper perspective, can be beneficial.

"What becomes a problem is that you decide, therefore, you're superior," he said. "It can make you think 'I'm so spiritually advanced that the normal rules don't apply to me.'"

Letters to the editor of Indy magazine after the article was published.

For full text read here:

September 3, 2008

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Going off about Lozoff

Editor's Note: Our Aug. 27 cover story, "The two faces of Bo Lozoff," generated significant response from supporters and critics of the spiritual leader. The Indy stands behind the story; we made two corrections (see note on story).

Shortly after the interview with Lozoff, we received and confirmed information that he had contacted one of our sources by e-mail and phone, pressing her to discuss with him why she approached the Indy. The Indy also received e-mails from Lozoff and his supporters asking us not to run the story.

Before the story was published, Lozoff contacted his supporters via e-mail, criticizing the Indy and suggested "if they feel so moved" they should write letters to the paper. This isn't to say that all the supportive letters were prompted by that e-mail, only that there was an attempt to organize such an effort.

A full transcript of the interview between reporter Matt Saldaña and Lozoff is posted on the online story. There are more than 50 comments from readers online. More letters will be printed next week.

A few:

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Melissa Lozoff
Durham

The writer is Bo Lozoff's daughter-in-law.

I was a tremendous admirer of Bo Lozoff, the Prison Ashram Project and Kindness House. I met him and the staff in 1996 and began volunteering regularly, as I revered their simple lifestyle, devotion to service and spiritual practices very deeply. Shortly after I began volunteering, Bo created a Spiritual Order that I became a novice and then member of. I did not take the precepts, requirements or vows lightly and was delighted to have found a structured, accountable mechanism to give my spiritual life a greater emphasis.

In fall 2002, I began dating a woman whom I had met while volunteering at Kindness House. Within a very short period of time I discovered that she had been involved with Bo sexually and romantically. I was crushed, outraged, in a state of utter disbelief.

In the weeks following, there was a major damage control effort prompted by Bo and endorsed by the board: how this was all sacred, spiritual and mysterious. I went on to marry this woman in haste despite a resounding amount of information that suggested I might want to wait. I look back now and see that I was in a haze of naivety and spiritual hypnosis. I take full responsibility for this.

Yet I never heard a word from Bo or any member of the Board. No "Sorry, buddy, no hard feelings." These acts are not, in and of themselves, inexcusable or irreparable. But what is excruciatingly violating and traumatizing is the silence. Bo had no accountability for his actions to me whatsoever. And, perhaps even more frightening, no accountability to the Board.

My marriage has all but dissolved. I don't want to imply that Bo is the sole reason, but I've never been able to put that incident behind me. I hope someone or something can help Bo. I hope I can open my heart and trust again.

Bill Wagner
Hillsborough

I have volunteered at Human Kindness Foundation for over five years, mainly reading and responding to a portion of the 500-plus letters they receive weekly from prisoners. I know what Bo's writing means to them. Many of these inmates have opened themselves up to spirituality after reading Bo's book We're All Doing Time. In the forward of that book, the Dalai Lama writes, "It is futile to harbor hatred and ill-will even towards those who abuse us."

Unfortunately, it appears that Mr. Saldaña and some of the people interviewed for the article are coming from such a place of hostility. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with Bo's unconventional style of spiritual healing. Nor do I dismiss the suffering that some individuals feel over what happened to them in their relationships with Bo. However, I believe that lashing out at him and HKF with such malice is counterproductive. Such enmity will negatively affect the work of HKF, and all organizations that promote spirituality and service to humankind.

I sought Bo's help when I felt completely stuck in my life, precisely because I knew him to be unconventional and that he would think outside the box. We met together several times in his office (which did have a window) and spoke at length. I credit him with helping me on my spiritual journey and encouraging me to continue to work at my current relationships, including the one with my life partner. I am forever grateful not only to Bo, but to HKF for following their calling to serve God and humankind.
RB
Durham

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I'm the woman in the article who arrived in 1999. I really don't think Bo understands the harm he has caused; otherwise why would he continue to minimize and invalidate my experience so much? For Bo to call our relationship "mutual sexual behavior" is not taking into account the power differential and my prior history of abuse. Bo describes the situation as "painful and confusing to us both," whereas I'd call the fallout downright devastating. My life and my marriage have mostly been a mess since I left Kindness House, and while I've done a tremendous amount of personal healing, my marriage is also ending from what I consider the toxic fallout of this situation.

The only reason I approached the Indy is because I don't want other women (or men, for that matter) to be hurt. Yes, this is a private, personal matter, but Bo has a very wide reach, thus my inclination to go with a public venue and warn followers who are not aware of Bo's other side. People who came to KH as vulnerable as I did deserve to know (even now) what they're getting into, since Bo does not have any checks and balances on his behavior.

The fact that Bo engaged in deceitful behavior that took advantage of me emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and sexually, not just once but over a sustained period of time, and not just with me but with other women, is a violation and betrayal of relational trust that must be condemned and condemned loudly and publicly, as the scandal of pedophilia within the Catholic priesthood has taught us. As the gay community often reminded us during the days when public support for AIDS victims was weak, "silence = death."

Name withheld by request
Chapel Hill

As a volunteer and friend of Human Kindness Foundation for 15 years, and a constant visitor to Kindness House over the lifespan of that community, I am absolutely certain that Bo Lozoff has never "psychologically terrorized" or been physically violent with another human being.

The parolees who came to Kindness House brought plenty of their personal issues into the daily life of the community, to the extent that often its other members were not able to get their own work done. Bo never stopped caring about, supporting and showing incredible generosity to anyone who came to Kindness House, including specifically those who "came forward with allegations."

It is tragically easy for someone who has no direct experience of the circumstances, and is crediting only one side of the story, to create an impression of what is already assumed. And for the public to then assume implications to be truth. Bo Lozoff has given the whole of his life—every iota of it—in service to others. I don't know of anyone else about whom that could be said.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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I wonder why Trinity and Marc initially chose Washington atate? Did they imagine that our marijuana laws [www.liq.wa.gov] somehow would apply to other drugs - because they don't.

Maybe Trinity views Washington as in a gold rush, and he wants to benefit. Maybe customers are more likely to believe his false claims of legality, because they equate Washington with "legal".

Trinity originally had promised another location, one near the Columbia River, on the Washington state side.

AH on their website includes guidelines to refrain from alcohol and marijuana beginning two weeks before retreat.

But I don't know if marijuana was used out on the land, don't know what drugs Marc and Franziska were using.

I wonder if some of Trinity's team is still out on the land. It is a rustic situation out on rural land, especially if Marc still isn't allowing people full use of the indoor bathrooms.

We know the Washington state AH operation is illegal and unsafe. I'm curious about the safety also of the members of Trinity's inner circle. How is Trinity treating them?
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