I checked again, now I can't find Leaving Mooji page
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Re: Mooji a cult?
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Re: Mooji a cult?
It seems strange to continue to discuss the “pros and cons, is he really a rapist or not?” aspects of James Swartz on this section designated for the ongoing Mooji debate. Therefore, I’ve opened up a new topic, “James Swartz-What is the Truth?”
Perhaps this would be a more appropriate place for this examination.
Perhaps this would be a more appropriate place for this examination.
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Thanks for bringing up this topic Traveler99
James Swartz's interviews on Rick Archer's popular "Buddha at the Gaspump" show were taken down. Apparently Rick only does that reductantly, and only when he hears alarming things about the teacher from multiple, credible sources that are too much to ignore. (like he did with Mooji, and Bentinho Massaro)
This story about Swartz has been going around for a while now in a kind of hushed way, until now.
He did not say at all who the teacher in the book was but for the record, Rick once posted a link to “Guru? The Story Of Heather” online about a year ago. He said:
"This important book is written about real people, but their names have been changed. It shows the extent of depravity which a few spiritual teachers have been hiding."
Someone commented:
"Rick, can't you tell us who this criminal “spiritual teacher” really is? I saw this book when you originally posted it. Poor Heather. Still, with all the tips it gives, and warnings, and stories, I wish I'd had this book when I was first starting out."
Rick replied: "Email the author. He may tell you."
Rick added later in the thread: "Moral codes are tricky and relative, but I think “Thou shalt not rape children” is pretty universal."
Someone asked: "How do you know any of it is true?"
Rick replied: "I know the people."
James Swartz's interviews on Rick Archer's popular "Buddha at the Gaspump" show were taken down. Apparently Rick only does that reductantly, and only when he hears alarming things about the teacher from multiple, credible sources that are too much to ignore. (like he did with Mooji, and Bentinho Massaro)
This story about Swartz has been going around for a while now in a kind of hushed way, until now.
He did not say at all who the teacher in the book was but for the record, Rick once posted a link to “Guru? The Story Of Heather” online about a year ago. He said:
"This important book is written about real people, but their names have been changed. It shows the extent of depravity which a few spiritual teachers have been hiding."
Someone commented:
"Rick, can't you tell us who this criminal “spiritual teacher” really is? I saw this book when you originally posted it. Poor Heather. Still, with all the tips it gives, and warnings, and stories, I wish I'd had this book when I was first starting out."
Rick replied: "Email the author. He may tell you."
Rick added later in the thread: "Moral codes are tricky and relative, but I think “Thou shalt not rape children” is pretty universal."
Someone asked: "How do you know any of it is true?"
Rick replied: "I know the people."
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Thanks for starting this discussion Traveler99.
That is all very interesting, Clearvision. Rick Archer himself has actually posted in the 'Mooji a cult?' discussion here on Cult Ed and may well like to comment on this discussion, as well.
I did find this reference to Rick Archer taking down Old James' interview from BATGAP - it's actually from the James Swartz newsletter:
[www.shiningworld.com]
Here James dismisses his accuser as a "troll."
(Hmmm... we have seen cult leaders use that term before, to dismiss their detractors. I am thinking of Universal Medicine Cult, where they repeatedly called Esther Rockett a "troll". The Universal Medicine Cult went on to famously loose their defamation case against Esther, who was proved to not be a troll, but an honest, concerned citizen with a legitimate, very concerning complaint. Just saying.)
That is all very interesting, Clearvision. Rick Archer himself has actually posted in the 'Mooji a cult?' discussion here on Cult Ed and may well like to comment on this discussion, as well.
I did find this reference to Rick Archer taking down Old James' interview from BATGAP - it's actually from the James Swartz newsletter:
[www.shiningworld.com]
Here James dismisses his accuser as a "troll."
(Hmmm... we have seen cult leaders use that term before, to dismiss their detractors. I am thinking of Universal Medicine Cult, where they repeatedly called Esther Rockett a "troll". The Universal Medicine Cult went on to famously loose their defamation case against Esther, who was proved to not be a troll, but an honest, concerned citizen with a legitimate, very concerning complaint. Just saying.)
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Call for integrity
Following recent discussions and my own research thanks to valuable contributions made on the Cult Education forums I make a stand that i will stop following any spiritual teacher who does not pass the test of integrity. I rather die ignorant or with the knowledge i found so far rather than follow a human being who calls himself or herself a spiritual teacher but does not pass the test and has not publicly acknowledged misconduct whether past or present, apologize for it and repair what he has done.
I expect that much from those who claim to be teachers and accept money and devotion from seekers of Truth.
Definition of integrity = the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.
Following recent discussions and my own research thanks to valuable contributions made on the Cult Education forums I make a stand that i will stop following any spiritual teacher who does not pass the test of integrity. I rather die ignorant or with the knowledge i found so far rather than follow a human being who calls himself or herself a spiritual teacher but does not pass the test and has not publicly acknowledged misconduct whether past or present, apologize for it and repair what he has done.
I expect that much from those who claim to be teachers and accept money and devotion from seekers of Truth.
Definition of integrity = the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles.
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Re: Mooji a cult?
corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Satsang.
>
> Truth assembly in Sanskrit.
>
> IMO these discussions on CEI appear to be closer
> to the sat sang ideal than most of the teachers
> and groups claiming the moniker.
Totally agree with you, corboy, association with true people who discuss, debate, search for what is true, not just at the Absolute but also at the relative level and are willing to question themselves and their possibly mistaken beliefs.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Satsang.
>
> Truth assembly in Sanskrit.
>
> IMO these discussions on CEI appear to be closer
> to the sat sang ideal than most of the teachers
> and groups claiming the moniker.
Totally agree with you, corboy, association with true people who discuss, debate, search for what is true, not just at the Absolute but also at the relative level and are willing to question themselves and their possibly mistaken beliefs.
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Re: Mooji a cult?
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Rick Archer is a very smart man.
Based on the evidence you put together, he knows Heather, and believes her story, but he can’t say so directly because his leadership position with Buddha at the Gas Pump precludes that.
Rick is a positive person, who wants to focus on the best. Rather than speak of those persons who have proved to be bad or highly questionable, and his reasons for having so concluded,he just quietly removes them from his site.
Based on the evidence you put together, he knows Heather, and believes her story, but he can’t say so directly because his leadership position with Buddha at the Gas Pump precludes that.
Rick is a positive person, who wants to focus on the best. Rather than speak of those persons who have proved to be bad or highly questionable, and his reasons for having so concluded,he just quietly removes them from his site.
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Re: Mooji a cult?
yes, traveller99, a good idea to give mr. Schwartz the "honour"of his own topic.
Just visited the leavingmoojipage, no problem.
The moo-moos changed their advertising for the upcoming recruiting-event in Lisbon. Took down the glamourpicture of the venue and the glamourwords (about famous artists performing at the venue). It's a not so appealing pic now and just a place perfect for satsang. No more mentioning of a discount for the Portuguese citizens either.
Just visited the leavingmoojipage, no problem.
The moo-moos changed their advertising for the upcoming recruiting-event in Lisbon. Took down the glamourpicture of the venue and the glamourwords (about famous artists performing at the venue). It's a not so appealing pic now and just a place perfect for satsang. No more mentioning of a discount for the Portuguese citizens either.
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Re: Mooji a cult?
Thanks Snapping-out,
I hadn't had a chance to look at the next Moo-Moo intensive until now. It's a slick piece of advertising, I'll give them that!
Most importantly:
The Moo-Moos say: "Occasionally, being in such an environment can adversely affect pre-existing mental health conditions. It may bring up latent traumatic imprints or deep-rooted tendencies in the body-mind, which can trigger strong, seemingly overwhelming, thoughts, emotional responses and behaviour. Satsang may offer an opportunity to recognise, release and transcend these states. However, a participant with a mental health condition may feel overwhelmed by this, and so additional medical and psychiatric support may be required. Please be aware that we are not able to provide this type of support or expertise."
The Moo organisation are unable to help people with mental heath issues who show up at these events. If you do suffer any kind of mental health issues, and you plan to go to this retreat in Lisbon, please consider what it will be like to try and seek help in a country where you don't know anyone and you don't speak the language.
Will you be able to find a doctor who speaks English (or French or Russian, etc.)????
You are feeling depressed and/or angry/disillusioned, home-sick and begin disassociating due to Moo-Moo mind games - what are you going to do????? The Moo organisation make it quite clear that they will not help you!
[mooji.org]
I hadn't had a chance to look at the next Moo-Moo intensive until now. It's a slick piece of advertising, I'll give them that!
Most importantly:
The Moo-Moos say: "Occasionally, being in such an environment can adversely affect pre-existing mental health conditions. It may bring up latent traumatic imprints or deep-rooted tendencies in the body-mind, which can trigger strong, seemingly overwhelming, thoughts, emotional responses and behaviour. Satsang may offer an opportunity to recognise, release and transcend these states. However, a participant with a mental health condition may feel overwhelmed by this, and so additional medical and psychiatric support may be required. Please be aware that we are not able to provide this type of support or expertise."
The Moo organisation are unable to help people with mental heath issues who show up at these events. If you do suffer any kind of mental health issues, and you plan to go to this retreat in Lisbon, please consider what it will be like to try and seek help in a country where you don't know anyone and you don't speak the language.
Will you be able to find a doctor who speaks English (or French or Russian, etc.)????
You are feeling depressed and/or angry/disillusioned, home-sick and begin disassociating due to Moo-Moo mind games - what are you going to do????? The Moo organisation make it quite clear that they will not help you!
[mooji.org]
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Re: Mooji a cult?
Yeah, and anyone who gets freaked out at a Moo event can expect to be dismissed as having had an under lying psychological problem.
This is a great way to shame traumatized subjects into staying silent.
Fear of being written off by the Moo Moos as being too fragile to benefit from Moo Meister's superpowers.
This is a great way to shame traumatized subjects into staying silent.
Fear of being written off by the Moo Moos as being too fragile to benefit from Moo Meister's superpowers.
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Re: The Christ Family
It was 27 years that I had not seen or heard from the family. In that time I had been searching for them and the Truth. All I had was the Bible, and by the time we met again I knew the Word after studying for 27 years. When we me and son walked into the yard, the red flags went up. They wasn't in robes and bare feet, some wearing leather shoes even lightning was wearing nikes.
During that 27 years studying the Bible, in the last chapter of the old testament in Malachi it said,( For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.) Malachi 3:6. Even though the red flags went up I still wanted to believe. So I sewed up a robe and hit the wind. Would go out for a couple weeks at a time and back to Hemet. A certain sister always seemed upset when I would come walking back into the yard, like I was suppose to stay in the wind. One day a brother said that aint right he gave us his money, and being treated like that.
One day I was sitting talking to another brother, and he told me lightning had been the one to stick a needle in his arm, That blew me away, I was like WHAT!? Then when I was out in the wind one time a guy was calling lightning white lightning, it seemed at the time, he called him that because of the robes, but then he explained. It was because lightning made meth.
My son had sighned his car over to them, and was in the wind. Then on thanksgiving I called wife, and told her he was in the wind and if she had heard from him. She told me he was there with her at home. So I asked to talk to him, and he told me about the miracle that got home about 2,500 back home.
I started thinking I have got to get his car back to him. So I told them I need the title back, so I could take his car to him, and they gave it back. Thank the Almighty it wasn't sold yet, a brother had it posted for sale on computer not sure if it was craigs list or what, but he seemed mad when giving title back.
So I took off with a 1/4 tank of gas, no money, in faith. Got back home and son gave me the book (in the wind), and I read it. The book put me at ease knowing I had done the right thing leaving hemet. It would have been nice if things was the same as it 27 years earlier, but it wasn't.
I was hoping for a life of living heaven on earth. It was ok out there but not heaven on earth,i witnessed brothers cussing each other out, threatening each other, one guy I won't even call a brother threatened me, and I told him I've walked over 10 guys his size to get to biggest one. Seen a brother and sister arguing one day, and the sister asked for forgiveness from the brother. The brother said ok I forgive you, but you ever do that again bitch and i'll slap the shit out of you. I was thinking whoa this is crazy. I would not hit a woman and don't care for woman beaters.
Going to leave it at that for now, hope it helps somebody.
During that 27 years studying the Bible, in the last chapter of the old testament in Malachi it said,( For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.) Malachi 3:6. Even though the red flags went up I still wanted to believe. So I sewed up a robe and hit the wind. Would go out for a couple weeks at a time and back to Hemet. A certain sister always seemed upset when I would come walking back into the yard, like I was suppose to stay in the wind. One day a brother said that aint right he gave us his money, and being treated like that.
One day I was sitting talking to another brother, and he told me lightning had been the one to stick a needle in his arm, That blew me away, I was like WHAT!? Then when I was out in the wind one time a guy was calling lightning white lightning, it seemed at the time, he called him that because of the robes, but then he explained. It was because lightning made meth.
My son had sighned his car over to them, and was in the wind. Then on thanksgiving I called wife, and told her he was in the wind and if she had heard from him. She told me he was there with her at home. So I asked to talk to him, and he told me about the miracle that got home about 2,500 back home.
I started thinking I have got to get his car back to him. So I told them I need the title back, so I could take his car to him, and they gave it back. Thank the Almighty it wasn't sold yet, a brother had it posted for sale on computer not sure if it was craigs list or what, but he seemed mad when giving title back.
So I took off with a 1/4 tank of gas, no money, in faith. Got back home and son gave me the book (in the wind), and I read it. The book put me at ease knowing I had done the right thing leaving hemet. It would have been nice if things was the same as it 27 years earlier, but it wasn't.
I was hoping for a life of living heaven on earth. It was ok out there but not heaven on earth,i witnessed brothers cussing each other out, threatening each other, one guy I won't even call a brother threatened me, and I told him I've walked over 10 guys his size to get to biggest one. Seen a brother and sister arguing one day, and the sister asked for forgiveness from the brother. The brother said ok I forgive you, but you ever do that again bitch and i'll slap the shit out of you. I was thinking whoa this is crazy. I would not hit a woman and don't care for woman beaters.
Going to leave it at that for now, hope it helps somebody.
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Does anyone know if swami Chinmayananda or another guru ever asked James to start teaching?
Someone told me they asked swami Tejomayananda (then head of the Chinmayananda mission) about James and he didn't want to talk about him but seemed to have a very negative opinion of him. But that might also be because James was involved with swami Dayananda, who's had a fallout with the mission.
Someone told me they asked swami Tejomayananda (then head of the Chinmayananda mission) about James and he didn't want to talk about him but seemed to have a very negative opinion of him. But that might also be because James was involved with swami Dayananda, who's had a fallout with the mission.
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Can't seem to edit my previous message anymore, but I believe the correct term is "falling-out," not "fallout" (I'm not a native English speaker).
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Zizlz,
that is very interesting. I did find this website, which you might have already seen.
[www.nevernotpresent.com]
If you scroll down and read the last 5 or so paragraphs, it does say that Old James learnt Advaita from Swami Chinmayananda. The guy who runs this website is an Advaita teacher himself and lo and behold - the guy is someone who has had a bit of cult involvement, himself!
He especially mentions Siddha Yoga, among seemingly hundreds of other spiritual traditions.... the guy is a regular spiritual shopper. He takes on a bit of everything.
that is very interesting. I did find this website, which you might have already seen.
[www.nevernotpresent.com]
If you scroll down and read the last 5 or so paragraphs, it does say that Old James learnt Advaita from Swami Chinmayananda. The guy who runs this website is an Advaita teacher himself and lo and behold - the guy is someone who has had a bit of cult involvement, himself!
He especially mentions Siddha Yoga, among seemingly hundreds of other spiritual traditions.... the guy is a regular spiritual shopper. He takes on a bit of everything.
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Anecdotally Observed Cult Recruitment & Membership Patterns
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Sahara71 Wrote:
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> If you scroll down and read the last 5 or so
> paragraphs, it does say that Old James learnt
> Advaita from Swami Chinmayananda.
I do think that's true, at least that James has spent some time with the late Swami Chinmayananda. The thing I'm more doubtful about is if Chinmayananda (who was a very reputable teacher) actually asked James to start teaching, as James has claimed IIRC.
>that is very interesting. I did find this website, which you might have already seen.
Yes I did see that site before. What struck me was the picture of James proudly holding up the big fish he just caught. This (finding joy in killing animals) is one of the red flags I noticed before but chose to ignore.
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> If you scroll down and read the last 5 or so
> paragraphs, it does say that Old James learnt
> Advaita from Swami Chinmayananda.
I do think that's true, at least that James has spent some time with the late Swami Chinmayananda. The thing I'm more doubtful about is if Chinmayananda (who was a very reputable teacher) actually asked James to start teaching, as James has claimed IIRC.
>that is very interesting. I did find this website, which you might have already seen.
Yes I did see that site before. What struck me was the picture of James proudly holding up the big fish he just caught. This (finding joy in killing animals) is one of the red flags I noticed before but chose to ignore.
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How Terrorists Use Cult Mind Control Techniques
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
I did find this anonymous comment from back in 2008:
"I am so glad to be able to tell you about James Swartz, aka Sunny Jim, or as we all knew him—Rama. I lived in a communal situation, (ashram?) with this man for two years and knew him for two years prior to this. Let’s be clear, like other false gurus, Jim is very charming and charismatic. He has a good Vedantic rap and I believe he has developed a siddhi or two. If you are naïve and have no prior knowledge of Vedanta he can seem very impressive, and can even trigger altered states that may mesmerize you. But be forewarned. Like many false gurus he is also a chronic liar and once he has lured you into his web with his rap, he can be verbally and emotionally abusive—all in the name of giving you a teaching. His little speech in his story about not knowing about ‘crazy wisdom’ would be laughable, if he hadn’t disappointed and messed up so many peoples’ lives. He has a knack for messing with people’s minds and sending them right off the deep end. The parts of his ‘autobiography’ that I was a witness to are so inaccurate that I am now wondering if he is delusional. He also forgot to mention the time he spent studying with a black magician in India. Another good story he forgot to mention was the time he was told he was no longer welcomed at the Chinmayananda Mission Summer Camp because it became known that he had seduced and then ridiculed a young woman that came to him for teaching. If you meet this man, run as fast as you can in the opposite direction."
This comments was lifted directly from: [guruphiliac.blogspot.com]
This information fits the picture we are beginning to see emerge about Old James!
"I am so glad to be able to tell you about James Swartz, aka Sunny Jim, or as we all knew him—Rama. I lived in a communal situation, (ashram?) with this man for two years and knew him for two years prior to this. Let’s be clear, like other false gurus, Jim is very charming and charismatic. He has a good Vedantic rap and I believe he has developed a siddhi or two. If you are naïve and have no prior knowledge of Vedanta he can seem very impressive, and can even trigger altered states that may mesmerize you. But be forewarned. Like many false gurus he is also a chronic liar and once he has lured you into his web with his rap, he can be verbally and emotionally abusive—all in the name of giving you a teaching. His little speech in his story about not knowing about ‘crazy wisdom’ would be laughable, if he hadn’t disappointed and messed up so many peoples’ lives. He has a knack for messing with people’s minds and sending them right off the deep end. The parts of his ‘autobiography’ that I was a witness to are so inaccurate that I am now wondering if he is delusional. He also forgot to mention the time he spent studying with a black magician in India. Another good story he forgot to mention was the time he was told he was no longer welcomed at the Chinmayananda Mission Summer Camp because it became known that he had seduced and then ridiculed a young woman that came to him for teaching. If you meet this man, run as fast as you can in the opposite direction."
This comments was lifted directly from: [guruphiliac.blogspot.com]
This information fits the picture we are beginning to see emerge about Old James!
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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Whoa, good find, Sahara!
Sahara71 Wrote:
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> This information fits the picture we are beginning
> to see emerge about Old James!
Exactly! Just a few days ago I still held this man in high regard but now that I'm reading the Heather story I start noticing more and more things that are off about him.
Just like Mooji's denial-video was pretty damning for himself (for those who actually listen critically to what he says there), James' denial-newsletter is also pretty damning.
[www.shiningworld.com]
Here it's clear that James does indeed use Vedanta as a way to dismiss any wrongdoing as unreal, since it's Maya/mithya. This confirms Heather's story.
Then he writes "in the event that you are not at that level of inquiry", in other words: if you're so unadvanced that you actually believe anything can be real, that anything can actually matter. This is very manipulative. He tries to make you believe that if you take the allegations serious, that means you're not advanced enough.
Another quote from the denial-newsletter:
I don't know how James thinks his ability to convince beautiful women to marry him proves his innocence, but the way he emphasizes their beauty does prove that he objectifies women.
Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This information fits the picture we are beginning
> to see emerge about Old James!
Exactly! Just a few days ago I still held this man in high regard but now that I'm reading the Heather story I start noticing more and more things that are off about him.
Just like Mooji's denial-video was pretty damning for himself (for those who actually listen critically to what he says there), James' denial-newsletter is also pretty damning.
[www.shiningworld.com]
Quote
When it is not possible to determine guilt or innocence – assuming you are not able to accept uncer-tainty – the law, which is based on dharma, provides us with an interesting concept: the preponder-ance of the evidence. In this case there is actually no evidence and I categorically deny the accuser’s statement, so how can you remove your doubt? Of course the quickest way to remove it is to see it as a mithya problem and dismiss it as unreal. But in the event that you are not at that level of inquiry, you can make a reasonable determination based on what you do know.
Here it's clear that James does indeed use Vedanta as a way to dismiss any wrongdoing as unreal, since it's Maya/mithya. This confirms Heather's story.
Then he writes "in the event that you are not at that level of inquiry", in other words: if you're so unadvanced that you actually believe anything can be real, that anything can actually matter. This is very manipulative. He tries to make you believe that if you take the allegations serious, that means you're not advanced enough.
Another quote from the denial-newsletter:
Quote
Third, consider the fact that I am seventy-six years old and married to an extremely beautiful – inside and out – discriminating woman who obviously loves me. And there are public doc-uments and witnesses that will testify to the fact that at the time of the alleged event I was married to an extremely beautiful woman, a runner-up in the Miss California beauty pageant no less.
I don't know how James thinks his ability to convince beautiful women to marry him proves his innocence, but the way he emphasizes their beauty does prove that he objectifies women.
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