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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 5, 2019, 4:52 pm
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Sorry for delayed response

Thank you PapajisaysNo and Joyfree.

I was pretty lucky as my warning flags went off with James S.

I stopped responding to his emails pretty quickly then I learned the gossip. But I have no idea if it’s true or not. So being near m has increased my “spidey senses” I can definitely feel a huge difference between a teacher like Rupert Spira who would NEVER do this and someone like James S.

Oh well. Live and learn and learn and learn. :)

Back to m

I’m seriously considering writing a book about my experiences and what I gained. If you have written me a PM, please know I will not use what you have shared.

If you want to be apart of the m book but wish to remain anonymous you can say so. And it’s in writing so you can be assured I won’t do a “James Swartz” on you and share your personal story.

PM me if you want to be involved or have ideas or think it’s a crap idea or a good one. I don’t want to use the wall for personal use.

I’m off here now accept for PM and won’t be responding accept if there is something new that comes up and I want to share it.

Peace.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 5, 2019, 6:58 pm
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Annette,

I think it's a great idea to write a book (as you already know!) I hope people will get on board with this and share their experiences with you (anonymously if they wish).

Writing a book could be very rewarding on a personal level, quite apart from what it might reveal about M. And I believe that it doesn't really matter if such a book serves to warn people away from M or not.... it would still be a powerful message about the type of pit-falls encountered by spiritual seekers.

You know, when I first got involved with the Mooji sangha, I had absolutely no idea that any individual could misuse his influence as spiritual teacher to such a degree. It didn't even cross my mind! It all looks so innocent form the outside. And now I feel so differently and I see how badly people can get hurt by organisations like M's, especially trusting, open-minded people.

Mooji is really a very insignificant teacher and the whole neo-advaita scene is a very small, mostly isolated movement with very little credibility in the world at large. From that point of view, you are only looking at a very small potential readership of such a book as you might write.

However, yours is such a unique story of personal triumph over adversity that I honestly believe a lot of people, especially women, will be interested in reading it! Even if they had absolutely no idea who Mooji was and what Advaita was all about- it wouldn't matter, because I think everyone can relate to having a yearning for a more profound, more enlightened life... a life that involves a spiritual quest of some sort.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 5, 2019, 7:00 pm
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When I was in the thick of mooji mania (family and friends all told me I was too obsessed which I knew, but justified it because i found it sooo pleasurable and enjoyable and also Mooji said if you have one habit or attachment let it be to the master and his pointings) I screen recorded his sangha chanting his name and would chant it in my room.

Now i look back at this video, saved on my computer as "beauty" (eek) and also notice it's 66.6 MB in size (oy) and i admit this is strange stuff.

ALso it's catchy! I played it for a few seconds while my nieces and nephews were around this weekend (oops) and they were breaking out into this chant playfully throughout the weekend. When my 6-year-old niece sang it this morning in the car, out of nowhere , 36 hours after she'd heard it, I was disturbed

They managed to make a chant that is catchy and sinks into the subconscious somehow


Here it is

This video soon will be removed by their copyright team

Please watch at your own risk
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 5, 2019, 10:35 pm
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Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it's a great idea to write a book (as you
> already know!) I hope people will get on board
> with this and share their experiences with you
> (anonymously if they wish).
>
> Writing a book could be very rewarding on a
> personal level, quite apart from what it might
> reveal about M. And I believe that it doesn't
> really matter if such a book serves to warn people
> away from M or not.... it would still be a
> powerful message about the type of pit-falls
> encountered by spiritual seekers.


Yes Annette, I agree with Sahara! Go for it!




> You know, when I first got involved with the Mooji
> sangha, I had absolutely no idea that any
> individual could misuse his influence as spiritual
> teacher to such a degree. It didn't even cross my
> mind! It all looks so innocent form the
> outside. And now I feel so differently and I
> see how badly people can get hurt by organisations
> like M's, especially trusting, open-minded people.


Sahara, absolutely, same here! I had no idea how cults operate and even if so, I was CERTAIN about m and when family/friends warned me, as they saw pics of m, I totally dismissed it.



>
> Mooji is really a very insignificant teacher
> and the whole neo-advaita scene is a very small,
> mostly isolated movement with very little
> credibility in the world at large. From that
> point of view, you are only looking at a very
> small potential readership of such a book as you
> might write.
>
> However, yours is such a unique story of
> personal triumph over adversity that I
> honestly believe a lot of people, especially
> women, will be interested in reading it! Even if
> they had absolutely no idea who Mooji was and what
> Advaita was all about- it wouldn't matter, because
> I think everyone can relate to having a yearning
> for a more profound, more enlightened life... a
> life that involves a spiritual quest of some sort.



Yes, as these teachers/cult leaders use pretty much all the same techniques etc it will be very useful!
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 5, 2019, 11:08 pm
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klaklaklak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ALso it's catchy! I played it for a few seconds
> while my nieces and nephews were around this
> weekend (oops) and they were breaking out into
> this chant playfully throughout the weekend. When
> my 6-year-old niece sang it this morning in the
> car, out of nowhere , 36 hours after she'd heard
> it, I was disturbed
>
> They managed to make a chant that is catchy and
> sinks into the subconscious somehow




Yes, when they came up with the m satguru mantra and the arati, that for sure was a point in time, when it went obviously, and for anyone who can see, totally OVERTOP. And yes, that is scary that your niece came up with it again after 36hrs....!!OMG
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 6, 2019, 10:53 am
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I had a dream: i was part of an organization and we were "under attack" by articles that were questioning our way of functioning and particularly our Headmaster's doings. What could we do to counter-attack and not lose our reputation and especially income? First have a brain-storming meeting about our defense strategy with the whole team.
Then call our lawyers to do their job against the villains who spoke badly about us but we could also polish our image through our website. How could we do that? Someone came with a brilliant idea which indeed i had seen being used as a good advertising strategy in modern especially American websites that sell products or services to make you feel well, happy and successful. But then i suddenly woke up and could not remember what it was.
I turned on my computer and was surfing on the net, when lo and behold, there it was that brilliant idea in front of my eyes:
it is a section called APPRECIATION on the Moo's website. Very fresh testimonials, but maybe a bit too many of them??!!
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 6, 2019, 1:04 pm
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wow Valma,

yep, so over the top that page full of appreciations. Great blurp! Smart advertising indeed. Not for advaita vedanta by the way but for mr m. It's all about him. How wonderful he is. So, buy this bs, buy it now! Look at all these happy people. Who wants to talk about that young man who killed himself! Or any other nasty little secrets ( becoming less and less secret).

The moo-mantra-video is taken down (ofcourse) as was to be expected. I remember it was recommended that one did that chanting every morning for seven minutes. "A beautiful way to start the day".
It was also done before the satsangvideo in the sangha I was in.

Being in such a sanghagroup felt like another step into the grip of this cult. You are still being groomed. Made to feel special. You got to watch satsangs that were a "special gift from Moojibaba" not to be shared with just anyone. With the threat that if you did they would not be able to share them anymore. You were advised to come together as a sangha on very short notice (usually one day before the broadcast).
At the same time it was becoming more and more demanding. But in a very subtle way. I did notice and felt uncomfortable. Calling this unease "resistance of the mind" ofcourse. All these "guidelines" for a meeting of a couple of people watching a video. And they would really like you to integrate these stopmoments at the ashram (one in the morning, one in the afternoon) in your daily life. Hey, sure. Sorry boss, can't do my job right now, having a stopmoment.
And then there is the One Sangha Gathering. Also very special, for those "who are deeply immersed in the energyfield of satsang". Not just for everyone. And if you were selected to go and represent your sangha it was a serious affair. They don't want just any member to show up at the ashram. And if no member ticked all the boxes they would rather you didn't send anyone.
And you start to see these people as friends. As beings you feel related to. As if you finally found like-minded souls. All very predictable in a cultlike environement. I don't want to say it is the same for everyone. It was like this for me. Breaking with this false master was also breaking with people I really liked and was fond of. But our bond was only as strong as this cult.
And that hurts, big time!

Annette, if you really feel to do it: write that book! As this forum already has over 200 000 views there may be more interest for it than we think.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 6, 2019, 5:23 pm
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Dear Snap, you have given very interesting info.

Can you describe the step by step process through which people get involved in Moo groups, and how these stop moments are announced and how you learn or are told about them?

You can't mention these to people outside the invited group?

How many hours notice after a special Moo video is announced?

How does this affect jobs, relatiobships? Does this disrupt existing commitments?

Does this interfere with sleeping?

Keeping secrets is a form of bondage. Being unable to confide in friends not chosen for the special Moo group you are in..that's a mind fuck. It disrupts friendships.
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Kaia Ra - The Sophia Code (satanic panic)

May 6, 2019, 6:50 pm
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Kaia Ra/ Colleen Anne Santoro is the founder of a channeling group. She says she is the oracle for her "Sophia Dragon Tribe". Much of what she is doing is akin to past channeling groups, like the ones detailed here: [culteducation.com] "Ascended Masters", an emphasis on Mount Shasta, "Mystery School" - all with her own spin.

She has updated, modernized, and glamorized channeling. Her business is expanding.

Some discussion of her here: [www.newagefraud.org]

Kaia Ra is also reviving her own version of the long debunked "satanic panic".

Quote

Kaia Ra’s early life was consumed by surviving her induction by birth into military programs that used systemic child rape trafficking, state-directed torture, ritual atrocities, and forced psychic exploitation that served agendas for the ruling elite. Due to systemic military torture and ritual abuse, Kaia Ra experienced death at least 13 times, starting at the age of 3.

[www.kaiara.com]

Unfortunately she targets victims of abuse:

Quote

Empowering survivors of atrocities that include: domestic violence, rape, and torture through a comprehensive holistic model for multi-level quantum healing which includes a foundational spiritual education provided for by The Sophia Code Divine modern mystery school curriculum

Quote

Providing an outreach ministry for freeing, healing, and empowering survivors of human trafficking, occult ritual abuse, mind control programs, and spiritual / religious cult abuse

[www.kaiara.com]

Kaia Ra's background is in graphic design and performance. She is not a licensed psychologist. She is not an expert in human trafficking or cult abuse.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 8:31 am
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I read back a few days ago on here an interesting discussion on James Swartz. I don’t follow this forum regularly but happen to see it this weekend.

Since James is one of Mooji’s critics, and for educational purposes you may find this of important to read.

This is from “Heather”. She claims to be a victim of James. An email is provided for you to contact her through if you have anything to ask or share.

James adamantly denies all her claims.

Decide 4 Yourself

[www.reallyguru.com]
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 8:34 am
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As I’ve read about Mooji, I’ve also seen comments about James Swartz.

For those interested in his words, it might will be advised to read the book “Guru, The Story Of Heather.”

This book is allegedly all about James Swartz. It is available for free download as a PDF at www.reallyguru.com.

Simply put, even if everything about Muji that has been said that is bad is true, he can’t come close to being as malevolent as Swartz—that is, if the allegations about him are true. Or even if a 10th of them are true.
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Re: A different way to look at Hare Krishna

May 7, 2019, 8:41 am
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If a person takes even ten minutes to do a web search for such things as “ISKCON crimes” a plethora of items will appear, perhaps the worst being the pedophilia rampant in that movement’s schools and orphanages.

Sad to say, the Hare Krishnas seemto be no better than the Catholic achurch— for every St Francis there are a thousand abusers of children, or so it seems.

Allegedly now the predominant misogyny that ruled under the movement’s founder has Ben tempered, but...?
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 8:47 am
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hi corboy,

It will not be the same for everyone. For me it was watching Youtubes, going to a lot of retreats, joining a sangha-group. I didn't make it to the last step of living at Sahaja.

Getting involved with a sangha-group is very simple. Look on their website, see if there is a group in your area, contact them and you are very welcome to join a meeting. You show up, everybody loves you instantly, they regard you as a brother or sister, welcome you to their sangha-family, wonderful. Or so it seems. Last year they found it necessary to register all sanghamembers. This year they also wanted to know which sanghamembers would be going to Rishikesh. Smells like control to me.

One gets an announcement for these live "only-for-the-chosen-few-satsangs" on very short notice. Mostly less than 24 hours. As it is a gift from m himself its not to be missed. Whatever plans you had, drop them.
The mantra-chanting and stopmoments are not secrets. Moo spoke about it in satsang. But then you are "advised" to integrate them into your daily life.

They choose their words very carefully. They never tell you that you must do something, they "advise".

What I am trying to convey is this step by step taking over of your time/life. It felt like they "advised" people to live the way they live at the ashram. It disrupts your normal daily life. Your friendships. creates tension. Not healthy.

And this is happening to people who at that time are deeply drinking the Cool aid.
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Re: A different way to look at Hare Krishna

May 7, 2019, 8:57 am
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yes, very true.... I knew about the movement from the early days in my neighborhood, and my brothers friend showed me a Hustler magazine that was busting Iskcon for bogus practices in airports back then. Now we are fortunate to have internet info as long one knows how to research.

If I had even known the one thing that the swami leader married a thirteen years old, I would have not given them any recognition.
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Ecclesia Network and The Well

May 7, 2019, 9:54 am
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Please tell me if you have heard of this group!!

My best friend, who is 50 and "sort of" Christian, has just written me to say "I think an appropriate church for my kind of faith may have found me." My defenses were up as soon as she said 'a church found me,' because of course I want to make sure no one I know joins a cult. (I was in the ICOC for 14 years.)

It's called The Well, and this is the church she's going to: [wellaz.org]

The only third-party info I found separate is on wikipedia. The reference links on wikipedia don't work, though.
[en.wikipedia.org])

When I googled The Well, similar sites came up for different cities.

The Wikipedia page said "it is affiliated with Ecclesia, a network of U.S. missional churches", so I looked that up too.
[ecclesianet.org]

The only similarities I discerned from the browsing I did (I'm at work) were the fact that it calls itself "non-denominational,' and meets in a school building. The Ecclesia site is all about 'planting churches'. These things were also true of the ICOC. I can't find any third-party information on them. I am worried, but since it's been a while since this group started and there isn't any third-party info on them, that might be a good sign that it's benign.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 9:59 am
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I'm really pleased to see all the points that are brought up on that new "Leaving Mooji" page. It's pretty bold in it's tone - just coming out and saying "he's a narcissist, and you should leave!" Obviously no m lawyers have been able to take it down, and we can't tell who made it. (I can tell they read this forum though)

I think people should start making more pages, channels and sites to turn up the heat in exposing this cult!

My brother made a facebook page for his sports team, and shared the directions with me. I've pasted them here. I'm going to try them myself soon... Just have to think of the angle I want to emphasize in educating people about this cult. There are many! The neo-advaita trap, abuse, Narcissism, the self-appointed guru issue, how to recover from a cult... you name it! Let's get creative, and keep up the pressure! Nobody will be able to tell who created your fb page, so you can post whatever the hell you want! OK, here are the directions:


From the "home" page, go down the left column, there's a heading "explore", and under that should be "pages." Click that.

Now you should see a green button on the top right "create page." Click that.

Choose "Community or public figure"

Enter a name for your page (it can be changed after if you like)

Pick a category You can choose "personal blog" if it's not sports. Then click continue

Add profile pic, (or skip 'till later)

Add cover photo or video, (or skip 'till later)

You'll then see your page. It is now published, so you should unpublish it for a while if you want to work on it. To do this, go to "settings" in the top right corner. Under "page visibility" click edit, then "un-publish." Click save changes.

While you're on this settings page, scroll down and set things how you'd like. If you want to be un-reachable, find the messages tab, click edit, and uncheck the "Allow people to contact my Page privately by showing the Message button." Then click save changes.

While still in the settings page, also look at "Visitor Posts" You can choose how others can post, or make it so only you can post. You can also click "Review posts by other people before they are published to the Page" In doing that, you will be able to review posts that people wish to make, and approve them if you like them. You can delete them otherwise. Click save changes after you've made your choice.

If you want to use "notes" (this makes entries look more like a website) while in settings, look on the left to "templates and tabs" and click that. Templates and Tabs will come up, scroll down to bottom, and click "add a tab" a pop-up will come up, look for "notes" and click "add a tab", then close.

Go back to "page" top left. On your page - left column you'll see "see more", click that, 'notes' will show up at the bottom of a list. Click notes, and the notes section will open. There you can click "add a note" on the right. You can add images, youtube links and whatever you want to the note. To keep working on them without publishing, you can click "save", instead of "publish" This will make them visible only to you as "drafts" until you publish them.

On facebook, you then can "like", and comment on things "as" this page if you want to. You can even join some groups "as" your page.

I'm going to take some time to try this. There ought to be way more voices out there with all this great momentum that is building in un-masking this fraud. I hope some of you that can understand these directions, and have an urge to share your insights will try this!
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 11:34 am
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Thanks Decide4yourself and Traveler99 for the link to www.reallyguru.com. Does anyone know if there are multiple accusers of James Swartz? And can anyone point me to information that the book is actually based on Swartz, or to information that can help assess the credibility of the accusations? I hope to be able to make an informed decision if I should stay away from him or not.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 2:31 pm
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Hi Zizlz,

I read pretty much the entire book "Guru- The Story of Heather" from www.reallyguru.com
The claims made in this book are shocking, indeed they are far worse that what Moo has ever been accused of. It is extremely disturbing and it made me feel sick in the stomach to read it.

On the reallyguru.com page, there is a email address where you can ask questions of the administrator... maybe you would like to do that?

It's very difficult when something like this comes to light and you have to make a decision if the claims are valid or not. I honestly don't know.

When I was doing extensive research on Tony Moo, there was already a lot of information out there to take into consideration... there were several different sources and different people offering up their stories anonymously. They were written in different voices- I could tell they were written by different people- but they were all saying similar things.... well, I don't want to bore you with research details (something I love doing but most people would find madly dull.)

From there on, I was able to contact people via personal message and ask them a lot of questions (very gently, I hope!)


In this case, so far, we only have the one account of abuse. I am told there are other accounts. Since it's out there now, anyway, you could start a new discussion here on Cult Ed, to see if anyone else comes forward? It's up to you.
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Re: Mooji a cult?

May 7, 2019, 5:51 pm
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This was posted here last Oct, but it's worth putting it up again.
The Guru Papers have come up here... Here's a great listing of many pertinent quotes [meaningness.com]
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Peter Young barred from entering Australia

May 7, 2019, 7:54 pm
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PY barred from entering Australia

After more than a decade of illegally teaching religion and receiving money from Australians, sources have reported to us that “Lama” Dondrup Dorje A.K.A. Peter Young (PY) has been barred from entering Australia during his attempted entry in January 2019.

PY was stopped by the Australian Border Force for trying to enter the country as a visitor on a UK passport, when he is there to generate income from his distorted brand of Buddhist teaching and Tai Chi classes. He has never applied for a permit to work as a religious teacher all these years. He is a Buddhist teacher fraud committing immigration fraud and tax fraud. On top of that, he encouraged his local student host to violate building regulations. This non-compliance placed his student at risk for breaking civil laws. These are all illegal and are criminal activities.

We are heartened by the Australian authorities’ response, as this will protect real Buddhists and aspiring Buddhists in Australia from being corrupted by PY. This also stops PY from further harming the current Pathgate students in Australia. Hopefully, this move by the Australian Border Force sends a clear signal that causes the current students to think critically:

“If my teacher is authentic, why would he be stopped by government authorities?”
“As Buddhists, are we exempted from the laws of the land?”
“What is our teacher’s stance on this and how are his activities and actions reflecting it?”

It is actually common knowledge to students of PY that he operates under the radar of authorities of the countries he “teaches” in. PY explains this as “not drawing unnecessary attention.” He actually boasts about this to students frequently, as this has allowed him to slip in and out of countries quietly, and students to facilitate the movement with large sums of money on his behalf for many years.

Ex-students have come to realise that this is another of PY’s manipulation and brainwashing. For PY to believe that he is an superior spiritual teacher who is above the laws of the land, indicates his blatant lack of respect for them. And to passively encourage and therefore implicate his students into breaking laws for his personal agenda, shows how little care he has for them. These are classic signs of a narcissist and a sociopath.

Another way to explain this: PY knows that he is a fake, so he cannot establish legal religious entities within the countries he operates in. The bottom line is that he does not have the credentials, recognition, and legitimacy to set up a legally recognised Buddhist centre with financial accountability anywhere in the world, even within his native UK. Any attempt to do so by himself and his students will give the game away.

International efforts are now expanding to get authorities to investigate PY and Pathgate in the various countries he has a presence in. We would like to encourage anyone who reads this and/or has a loved one in Pathgate and is concerned for their social, psychological and financial well-being, to report to your local authorities PY’s and Pathgate’s illegal activities. Your effort in preventing this cult from causing further harm is very much a public service, and is greatly appreciated by survivors of Pathgate.


Blog Post
[pathgatesurvivors.com]
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