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Re: trying to recover from nonduality / advaita

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Hi Kalinka, I'm sorry you are going through this but very glad you are reaching out.

Are you on Facebook? If so, the group Shades of Awakening – about spiritual emergence(y) – may be relevant for you. They also have a website [shadesofawakening.com] with a resources page.

Also it could be helpful to find a trauma therapist (especially somatically based) or other style therapist who understands this issue. They do exist. There are also inpatient centers for spiritual emergency (again, people know about those places in the group I mentioned). Wishing you to find some nice relief soon. :)

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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SO TULSI, WHAT SIDE ARE YOU GOING TO FALL ON?
THE SWORD OF YOUR GURU OR THE SWORD OF YOUR PARTY?
ARE YOU FREE?

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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SIDDHA,
THE LANDSLIDE WILL BRING YOU DOWN . . .

How REAL LOVE works (part 3)

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So, we’ve done a few groups and maybe read a book and seen a video on Youtube, shared phone numbers, got onto the Secret Facebook page and are now hooked in to a network of people who will take a phone call from you when a RealLove emergency arises. What is that you ask? Well, that is when you feel a bit low, sad, depressed, anxious or have demonstrated ‘getting and protecting’ behaviours and you now feel bad so you have to talk-out the situation that happened with someone. This is known in RL as ‘getting loved’. (Yep, a ‘getting’ behaviour – but of course it’s a RealLove behaviour so it’s not really a proper Getting behaviour really). Every time you get like this you ask around for someone to take your call and people will bend over backwards to make sure someone does indeed take your call and help you through your emergency. Of course this is not talking you out of suicide or potentially killing another person – just minor stresses that are made out by RL to be really big deals that NEED their help. ‘Getting Loved’ will of course involve masses of RealLove jargon and loaded language being used, more double-binds and distorted metaphors and analogies plus a whole lot of ‘Greg says….’. It’s a subtle and slow poaching process to gradually bring you over to RealLove thinking and to get you to engage more fully with RealLove. And believe me and all the others on this post and the other on this site who have lost loved ones to RealLove, if they start having calls (secretly or otherwise) they will be absorbed into RealLove very easily and sadly, very quickly for some people. They will be love-bombed and trapped within the culture of RealLove for sure, and RL don’t mind at all how long it will take to fully catch you in their net. They KNOW that the slow little by little approach works wonders to discreetly draw you in (mind control) – your trust, all your secrets, all your fears, all about your life and your situation, your feelings and emotions, your thoughts – everything! They don’t mind how long it takes before you eventually submit and surrender to the ‘INTERVENTION’ because they know that they already have you. So word of caution and warning – stop doing groups and cut off all contact and friendship with RealLove people immediately – this is the ONLY way to protect yourself from cult entrapment. If you are doing still doing groups after 2-3 then you are already in the snare, so it is only a matter of time before you are in the trap itself.

So, you are suppressed from sharing and shedding stress in your life with your loved ones and friends because now you are being ‘loved’ by RealLove– either in the form of a hug, or of being ‘held’, having ‘calls’ etc when you need support. You are probably ‘secretly’ giving your all to RL and withholding all your feelings from your family and friends, and most importantly your partner. RL are gradually creating the well-known cult phenomenon of the ‘Them-And-Us’ divide. This is where there is a stark and contrasting thought and belief system between the cult (Us) and the rest of the world (Them) – with the cult world becoming a sort of safe haven and the rest of the world, your normal life, a big bad ogre that scares you and splashes you with bad stuff every day. You now open up to submitting to being ‘held’ and get over the total embarrassment and stupidity of it as you are gradually coming over to RealLove thinking. Once you submit to this you will be ‘one of Them’ from that moment on. You will have crossed over so to speak. It will not be very long now before you will see this process ‘holding’ as the panacea for everything, and something you will become addicted to wanting more of, what you will wait all week for, and reject all other love in your life for.

When being ‘held’ and nursed like a baby you’ll most likely also receive what is known as a ‘LONG-GAZE STARE’. This is yet another known major well-known cult technique. So while Greg Baer and RealLove will keep saying that people don’t really look into each other’s eyes for long enough etc., they are right to a small degree, but not to the degree that they are utilising. Elsewhere on this site this technique is fully explained (as is the double-bind). What this technique does is to actually hold a long ‘stare’ into your eyes with absolutely no information-sharing between consciousnesses. This is not looking into your soul as a reciprocal action of caring and connection. What is going on here is the shutting down of the mind to think critically, to respond and reflect, to challenge and criticise. And most importantly for RL, your ability to realise what an utterly stupid thing you are submitting to. Long-gaze staring is off-putting, offensive and wrong in every way. The way I have seen this used on myself as well as others is just pathetic and achieves nothing useful whatsoever. We all know that if someone is in shock, distressed, traumatised or having a panic attack that the thing we need to do is to hold their shoulders gently and keep asking them repeatedly to look into your eyes, allowing the person to capture your gaze. This will in a very brief period of time cause the person to almost instantly calm down. We’ve all used it or seen it used with someone in shock. Not just on adults, but on children. And it works! It’s a well-documented phenomena. But it was devised specifically for these purposes, for the very specific reason of shutting the traumatised person’s brain down so that their blood pressure, heart rate and breathing slow down and thus bring them into a healthier state of mind and body. Nothing wrong within this context. However, cults use this technique differently and for more sinister reasons. They want to shut your mind down from questioning things, thinking critically, seeing reality, learning something, challenging the cult in any way or indeed just critically challenging anything, learning something, examining anything etc. Be this from free thought, from getting answers, from seeing the real truth, and about learning that they really are in a cult!

But don’t believe me! I’m just a complete lunatic who is ‘desperate to be loved’ and knows nothing. That’s what I got every time I challenged RealLove – I also retorted back asking that they stop doing that staring rubbish as well. Then I am told ‘you’ve got it all wrong’, ‘this stuff is really helping people’, ‘you don’t understand, this stuff is changing people’s lives’. I have only read a lot of books on cults, including those acclaimed on the subject, and done a lot of reading and research, that’s all! I wouldn’t make a claim like this ignorantly. It is what it is, despite those fooled by it and who are actually believing it is above-board and bonafide. However, I don’t believe the lies that cults tell and I can’t and won’t be manipulated. I will not let this happen to me again. Never. Thankfully, from personal experience I could figure things out for myself as so many techniques were known to me.

So, over time you read more and more books and come to believe what Greg Baer says. That he has got this RealLove stuff channelled from god. All the books were channelled. I’m sorry, but God does not signpost people to one person’s copyright/trademark registered organisation in almost every page. Channelled books DO NOT behave as a marketing tool for the delivery of a service that is a business venture of one man. Seriously!! There’s not a lot of meat in the books and they keep subtly convincing the reader to accept that RealLove and unconditional love are one and the same thing. They are not. RealLove is a set of principles devised by a former eye surgeon called Greg Baer. You enact RealLove entirely on Greg Baer’s principles. Principles ordinarily are designed as a set of rules or values that represent what is desirable for a group/organisation/community helping them to define or determine their perception of rightfulness or wrongfulness in a members’ actions. Thus principles govern our behaviours, thoughts, feelings, actions, attitudes and how they will be given, if given, to whom, when etc. Thus, RealLove principles completely and utterly obliterate any form of unconditional love, just by the nature of them being a set of governing principles. When compared to engaging in any unconditional loving response without the use of any set of principles we are left with that which is authentic, real, natural, spontaneous, genuine, true, actual. When responding in real terms and without a set of principles to abide by you are indeed providing real and genuine unconditional love. When you are responding in RealLove terms, using Baer’s principles to guide and follow you are not providing unconditional love at all – you are thinking before acting, and so in that instant it cannot be unconditional. Unconditional love is not thought about in advance. You will be made to feel total confusion between these concepts though – you will struggle if you stay with RL. You will learn that certain things are supposedly ‘loving’ but deep within your conscience you know they are not loving at all. You will end up doing a lot of very unhealthy things. BE WARNED. The following is Greg Baer’s vile claim:(I have made the distinction myself as I cannot link unconditional love and RL as one and the same thing)

“There is only one kind of love, however, that can fill us up, make us whole, and give us the happiness we all want: unconditional love or RealLove ©(Trademark, Registered)”

“It is unconditional love or RealLove ©(Trademark, Registered) that we all seek, and somehow we recognise that anything other than that kind of love isn’t really love at all – it’s an imitation of the real thing. Unconditional love – RealLove©(Trademark, Registered) – is so different from the kind of love most of us have known all our lives that it deserves both a name and definition of its own”

Yes, this is the gradual manipulation of your mind, thoughts and belief system to wholly ‘believe’ that the real and genuine unconditional love of the universe has been magically discovered as being Greg Baer’s way, self-made laws and principles, and not really the love we all know. Basically, the only imitation love going on in RL is RealLove itself. True unconditional love does not run out and is natural and spontaneous, coming directly from the heart. Once you believe in this tripe you will come to go along with another of Baer’s fanciful ideas: and that is by giving love you run out of it and when you run out you are empty and afraid, so need to get loved by RL. Apparently, the real and genuine unconditional love of the world is what runs out and empties us – yet he also contradicts himself too. You will learn that when you define yourself as ‘empty and afraid’ that you cannot make your own choices and therefore need the help of RealLove to help you to get loved properly. The fact of the matter is that people, all of us, have times when we feel tired, stressed, have a headache, feel sore or in pain, anxious, lacking in energy, hungry etc. – and we might respond by being a bit grumpy or distant. That’s a choice – it does not imply we have no love left inside us to give. It means we have chosen to withhold our love – however, most people find it in their heart to overcome the feeling and be loving regardless of how out of sorts they feel. But this tripe is what you will believe!!

The next thing you might end up doing is signing up the weekly Greg Chat videos. I would rather die the death of a thousand cuts than hear another one of these! These videos use SUGGESTIVE HYPNOSIS and LIGHT TRANCE techniques through which to embed the RealLove ideology. You will slowly be convinced that you NEED to have a RealLove ‘intervention’. PLEASE DON’T – BE WARNED. You might end up signing in to the nightly conference calls where RL people share their dramas of the day, and of how rotten their thoughts and behaviours have been – all so that they can ‘be loved’ by each other, and all the badness made good again. What you really need is to talk it out sensibly with someone who truly knows you. But all RL people need to do in order to function is to hear that their bad actions, thoughts, behaviours, attitudes etc. are completely acceptable and that they are still loved, still adorable, loved to the bones, that they are enough, etc. etc. Just hearing that they are still loved is all they want to hear. No need to work through why they have been a rotten so-and-so today, or talking it through properly etc. I heard a lot of very bad advice during some phone calls that I sat in and heard. Shocking. There are people who need to be under the care of a mental health professional – seriously! And it is not alright to keep blaming everybody else, the rest of the world who are NOT doing RealLove for all their problems, actions, behaviours, feelings etc. This attitude borders on completely stupid. It’s not the RealLove person’s fault that they were nasty to everyone in their life today, no of course not! It’s the fault of everyone in their life NOT doing RealLove who are clearly ‘in pain’, ‘believing the lies’, ‘insane’ etc. and not their own self at all. Crazy!

Now RealLove, as with all cults, another highly distinguishing factor of cults, focuses on childhood. Most therapy DOES NOT focus on the childhood as the problem for everything in our lives. Certainly not in the UK. Therapy uses a lot of different techniques to help you work through things safely and be a whole and empowered person at the conclusion of therapy – if not well before then. RealLove, as with all the other major cults, wants to focus on the childhood events in your life that were negative. Nothing about the happy times as apparently they don’t exist. This is how all cults work. They, the cult, are going to save you and make it all better again. RealLove, as with other cults, focuses on getting your mind-set into a childish focus. All people are told, and this comes from Baer, taht they are only mentally and emotionally 2 or 3 years old. Actually, everybody in the world is. And only RealLove can fix you and make you all properly grown up. RealLove will give you what you missed out on – proper parental love. Once you are in this mind-set and believe it fully you will be able to be manipulated just like a real child of that age. You will want huggies and holds, you will want to be like a baby, you will want to sit on Greg’s lap (male or female) or another coach/daddy and tell them that you love them, call them daddy and hug them like a baby. You would not do this if you weren’t put into this mental state in the first place. You are put into this state slowly by attending groups, watching videos, reading books, listening in on conference calls and engaging with RealLove people. If you keep this up, you too will be sitting on a daddy’s lap and saying you love them! You will reject your own parents and family, distance all your friends and even break up your marriage/relationship. You will do as you are told to do – sorry suggested to do – because your mind-set has changed without your permission. But more disturbingly because you have various things now implanted into your mind that you didn’t know were put there.

The most obvious alteration of beliefs is the planting of the idea that every thing you are doing in your life, every RealLove suggestion, is YOUR OWN IDEA and not theirs. Listen in on a group, a call, a video, and you will hear the words “YOU GET TO CHOOSE” or “WE GET TO CHOOSE” added to most ideas, concepts, advice, suggestions etc. You will hear it over and over and over. But hey, I wasn’t allowing myself to be pulled in so maybe that’s why I picked up on it more than others who seem quite oblivious to it. That idea that you yourself are choosing everything that is happening in your life, even doing RealLove, is supplanted there. Not one person goes against whatever is suggested, where these words are attached. There are many other suggestions – but this is the most obvious. So not only do you have a childlike mind-set which is exploitable, but your mind has been manipulated to the point of exploiting your ability to form your own decisions. If people in RealLove had done any form of mental health and psychological therapy they might notice more what is going on around them, but they haven’t and Greg Baer clearly emphasises that professional psychological help does not work and is useless – because apparently it didn’t work for him, he of course cured himself with RealLove. Of course, Greg’s story is very flawed and reading several of his books and seeing him on video it does become clear that he demonstrates the typcial psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies that all other cult leaders past and present display. Many of the people who worked closely with him in the early years of RealLove have left him and state that RL has steered in the wrong direction. Very clearly IT IS NOT LIFE COACHING. That is a very different thing. Despite my asking on several occasions where all the healthy healed people were it turns out that there aren’t any. They are all still doing RealLove, and probably will be for life (unless they see the light and get out) because it is a cult and Greg Baer needs a lot of children to worship him and give him their money for this magic ‘unconditional love’ which he is the ONLY PERSON IN THE WHOLE WORLD WHO POSSESSES.

And there’s more…………… If you are this far in, there is very little hope of you getting out, especially if you have been keeping your connection to RealLove a secret from all the people worried that it was a cult you were getting yourself into. You will have no one to help you see the light if you have cut everyone off and out of your life. This is what cults do. Once you cut everyone off, cults can move in and pull you further and further in to their web because you have no one in your life to stop this from happening. PLEASE DON’T ALLOW YOURSELF TO GET THIS FAR.

So, if you have someone in your family that has tried RealLove and you have convinced them to stop, and they say that they have. Follow it up regularly, to check that they aren’t still engaged. Arrange things on group night so that you KNOW that they are not attending the group. Call them up during the telephone conference times. Keep trying to ensure that they have not just gone off and continued anyway, secretly. Find a way of having deep meaningful conversations, heart-to-hearts with them and really help them with what is troubling them in their life. ANYTHING is better than them hooking up with a cult organisation – especially this one. People on this site can attest this!!!

.....and there's just a little bit more.....

Re: Uma Inder , Umaa

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I am afraid if I give specifics, this information will be out and will jeopardise the safety of the people she has exploited. Can you please message me, if you have gone through the process yourself how it works.

Question about "Aranya"

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It is alleged that Uma has an herbal company called "Aranya" (see quotation below).

* Is Uma Inder trained to select, purchase and prescribe herbs?

* If she sells herbs, are the sources of her herbs from reputable sources?


If you are an Uma Inder disciple,

A Are you free to take charge of your own
medications, your own diet?

B Can you keep those decisions private?

Or -- if you are an Uma Inder disciple,

Does Uma Inder question you about your diet?

Does Uma Inder demand that you disclose confidential information about your health status and psychological history?

Has Uma Inder told you in writing that what you say to her she will keep confidential?

Has what you tell her in private kept confidential?

Does Uma Inder require you to follow her dietary advice

Does Uma Inder require you to abandon your own medical advisors

Does Uma Inder require you to abandon medications prescribed for you by health care advisors other than her, or those recommended by her?

Are you required or pressured to purchase Uma Inder products?

Are you free to continue using other products or must you purchase and use Uma Inder products to the exclusion of others?

Are you scolded or punished if your health does not meet Uma Inder's standards?






Quote

In addition, ex-students claim to have been exploited by Uma Inder, compelled to devote their time and money strictly for Umaa’s benefit, under the guise of it being “all for [them].” These ex-members state, for example, that they worked to organize yoga retreats, take care of her property, and run her herbal company called ‘Aranya’, all for no compensation of any kind in return except for “spending time with [Umaa Inder]” and under the threat of mental and emotional violence if they did not comply in order to stay connected to the group.

To read more about these allegations, please visit our website: [ow.ly]

If you have any relevant information to share, either positive or negative, please contact us at: [ow.ly]

[www.familiesagainstcultteachings.org]

So you see a sign advertising 'Free Meditation'...

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Friends, suppose you are out and about, taking the dog for a pee, running your errands, etc.

For the past few months you've been seeing signs all over your neighborhood. Signs pasted on phone poles, benches, trees all advertising "Free Meditation" "Dharma", "Enlightenment" various promises of mind mastery.

You get curious - someone keeps putting new fliers up, and each new rash of fliers has different graphics, all attractively done.

Your brain gets an itch - thanks your being descended from many, many generations of curious people. Why not see what these meditation classes are about? Besides, it will be cool to tell your friends about it - you can tell them
what's behind all those fliers on trees and at the laundromat and on the Safeway bulletin board.

Stop.

That's what the publicity campaign is all about. To get you curious. You are
already doing what they want you to do.

Next, consider this. "Free Meditation"

Hello, hello. You may be paying for this meditation classes - and you have not even attended one yet!

How can this be?

If you are an American tax payer, that's how.

If this free meditation class is offered by a religious organization, it is probably tax exempt. Which means you, the tax payer, have been indirectly subsidizing them and ya have not even stepped through the door just yet.

Keep this in mind. By paying taxes, you indirectly subsidize any non profit that offers "free meditation classes" - which means not only have human rights to know what you are getting into, you have taxpayer rights.

Your Rights When You Attend a Meditation Introduction - Free or For Money.

Suppose those publicity fliers advertise that the meditation class is, say
at 8PM on Wednesday night.

Your rights as a human being -- and your additional rights as a taxpayer subsidizing them

The right for that class to begin on time at 8 PM.

The right for that class to end at a reasonable hour so that you and
the others can get home early enough for a sufficient nights sleep - especially on a weeknight.

The right to get up and leave if that class runs past your bed time.

Corboy's opinion is that if the group has the resources to run a publicity campaign, they should have their sh*t together enough to begin the class
at 8PM and end at 9:30PM, at the latest. Ninety minutes is enough time
to convey key concepts.

So, never forget before you investigate a free meditation class that if you are
a tax payer, you've likely already subsidized whoever is giving it. Don't let them disrupt your bedtime.

Sleep The Essential Nutrient

Before you go to the meditation class, take a look at the day and time.

* Is it in the evening, in the middle of your work week?

If you have to work the next day, be aware you have the RIGHT
to have that evening meditation class start on time and end at a reasonable hour - IMO no later than 9:30 PM.

A well run meditation class should give you all you need within an hour and a half and if the instructor has respect for you, that class should start on time and end on time.

Just because a class is free does not mean you lose your right to have it start at the advertised time.

If they run more than 20 minutes late, Corboy advises treating this like a bad
date. Get up and leave.

Why?

* Your time is valuable, especially in the evening and on a weeknight. . After all, you could have spent that time
with friends, or in a class or at home with your family.

Another reason to leave if the class is 20 minutes late - if you are kept awake past your bed time, this screws with your sleep wake cycle and it makes you more suggestible. And -- you risk feeling crappy the next day.

If they will not let you leave, shove past em and get out. They are exploiting your politeness. Don't let this happen to you.

If they say you are going to miss out on something wonderful or you're being
negativistic or ego driven or you're making a big thing out of nothing,
these are the standard ways unethical sales people mess with your head.

Repeat, just because it is advertised as a "free meditation class" does not
excuse the organizer from beginning on time.

Before you go, be aware that if you are are kept up past your bedtime, you
are much more susceptible to trance induction and other influences that undermine critical thinking.

Free meditation - know when 2 leave, no matter what

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Okay, before you go to that "Free Meditation Class" whose fliers with Buddha on them have been posted all over your neighborhood week after week, here are some to things to keep in mind.

You've already decided you will leave if the class has not started 20 minutes after the time it is advertised to begin.

Decide what time you are gonna leave, no matter what.

Some unethical meditation salespeople will keep the class going late into the night. This will mess up your sleep wake cycle.

So decide for yourself that you will (say) get up and leave at 9:30 PM, no matter what.

This is intelligent self care, this is not being egotistical. Do not let politeness make you afraid to take care of yourself this way.

You can bet that others in the group probably want to get up and go home and feel too shy to assert themselves.

If anyone tries to run a guilt trip on you to stay, this by itself is a sign that this is sleazy.

"Free Meditation" fliers with Buddha Face on them

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You may be curious because you've been seeing all those Buddha face Free Meditation signs in your neighborhood week, after week, being reposted again and again and again.

Ask yourself this:

* Where is the money coming from to pay for all those fliers? Paper costs money. Print jobs cost money. If the printing is in color, it costs even more money. Who is paying for it -- and how much will you find yourself paying?

* Whose effort is putting up all those fliers? Some volunteers are working their asses off and not being paid to do it. Will you have the time to do this if you get involved?

* This thing appears to be a religious gig. This means it is tax exempt and you, a tax payer are indirectly subsidizing this.

You have every right to ask questions. And because as a tax payer, you are indirectly subsidizing this organization, you have a right for their
free meditation class to start on time and not keep you up past your bedtime.


If anything has images of Buddha or refers to Dharma, the class
should refer to Buddha's Four Noble Truths.

It should not be about prosperity, mind mastery, psychic phenomena.

People in that class may seem bubbly and enthusiastic while you are sitting there having doubts.

Trust your gut. Those bubbly enthusiastic people may be plants, people who are into the group, and are there as cheerleaders to make the event seem
better than it is.

A 10-Level Pyramid Model & Psychodynamics of Cult Organization

Can People truly Recover from Cult Indoctrination and Manipulation?

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

"Dosed with LSD" as initiation - Fred Lenz Rama

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[mobile.wnd.com]

Goodbye Zen Man
Published: 09/25/1998 at 1:00 AM
. Stuart Goldman

Read more at [mobile.wnd.com]

Quote

It had been nearly 10 years since I’d met with Lenz, but the memory was
as clear as day. Back then, he wasn’t known as Lenz. He’d gone by the
moniker “Zen Master Rama.” At the time (1986), I was heavily involved in
investigating destructive cults; so when I saw the ad in the paper that
read, ”A ONE EVENING INTENSIVE WITH ZEN MASTER RAMA,” my antennae
immediately went up.

On a cool Monday evening, I joined a massive line waiting to get into the
Wilshire Ebell theater in Los Angeles. Inside the auditorium, a sign read,
“NO SMOKING. NO CHILDREN. NO LOWER OCCULT ENERGY.”

The people in the audience that night were a fairly well-heeled lot. No
fringe-clad Deadheads in this bunch. However, the most distinguishing
feature of the crowd was that a large portion of them had that peculiar
waxy-faced, glassy-eyed look that is common amongst New Agers.... .

A rather, bland, upbeat instrumental track filled the room. It had a
strange numbing quality to it. Approximately ten minutes later, the lights
went down, and a figure clad entirely in black appeared onstage. It had to
be. And indeed, it was. …

Zen Man had arrived!

A hush fell over the crowed. Zen man began to speak in a strange,
toneless voice. He told the audience that they’d be going through “lots of
different experiences” as he guided them through “the 10,000 states of
mind.”

For the next hour, the music (written and produced by Zen Man himself)
played, during which time the audience was instructed to close their eyes
and “meditate.” Meanwhile, Zen Man simply sat onstage in the lotus position,
occasionally making little swooshing motions with his hands.

After a few moments, I stole a glance around the room at the entranced
crowed; I almost laughed out loud. These witless nincompoops had paid $15 a
pop to sit here and do nothing! Somehow the sheer preposterousness of
the scene filled me with a strange and terrible sense of glee.

Moments later I felt a hand on my shoulder. I looked up to see a man clad
all in black staring down at me. “You’ll have to step outside, sir,” he said
coldly.

I followed the man out to the lobby, where he was joined by several more
all-black clad individuals. “We noticed you have a tape recorder,” one of
the Zen Goose-Steppers said. “Tape recorders are not allowed.”

Giving my best Jack Nicholson sneer, I pulled out my press pass, and
informed them I was “on assignment.” I then said that I’d like to do an
interview with Zen Man after the show. The black clad minions appeared to
grow nervous. They convened momentarily.

You must personally request an interview with The Master,” I was
informed. “However, if you want to come back inside, you need to leave your
recorder with us
.”

I did as I was bid (I had a backup mini-recorder stashed in my bag) and
went back inside. The crowd, still entranced, sat silently while onstage,
Zen Man was going through a series of karate-like moves. The music droned
on.

When the evening was over, I headed for the lobby. After looking around,
I finally spotted Zen Man, who actually appeared to be hiding in a far
corner of the room. I went over and introduced myself. After shaking a cold,
clammy hand, I told him that I was a reporter, and that I’d like to do an
interview. There was a long silence while Zen Man’s eyes — cold, blue and
dead — seemed to penetrate my skull. Then he asked me for my card, telling
me that one of his “people would get back to me.” As I turned to leave, one
of the Zen Zombies handed me a promo package, featuring a heavily
air-brushed photo of Zen Man on the cover.

...

I never heard back from Zen Man, so I did a little poking around. My
research turned up his real name: Frederick Lenz, a native San Diegoan who
had graduated from the University of Connecticut and taught English there
before hopping onto the burgeoning “guru circuit.” Lenz’ father had once
been the mayor of Connecticut.

But things didn’t get interesting until I did
a financial background check. This cat was loaded!

At the time, Lenz was
renting a $10,000 a month pad on the beach in Malibu, which he shared with
an inner core of his “followers.” The garage was full of classic cars,
including his favorite, an black Porsche Carerra. I uncovered numerous bank
accounts, all under various “corporate shell” identities. Lenz’ estate was
well in excess of several million dollars.

OK, so Lenz was loaded. And it was clear by now that he was the leader of
what appeared to be a cult. But the going got rough when I tried getting any
of his “devotees” to talk to me. Finally, I turned up a few ex-Lenz
followers, and the story broke wide open. People told of being dosed with
LSD as an “initiation” into the cult. They talked of being forced to turn
over their life’s savings. And there was more … including allegations of
rape and torture (performed by Lenz) against two female cult members.

Once the dam had broken, more people started talking. One individual
related an incident where Lenz had choked a puppy to death in a rage of
anger. Another told of him waving a loaded gun at several cult members who
were threatening to defect. Moreover, Lenz had been linked to the suicide of
one of his “students,” as well as the mental breakdowns of two others. And
something even more chilling: several cult members had mysteriously
“disappeared” — never to be found.

I filed my story, but it ran on an inside page of the paper and didn’t
garner all that much attention. A month later, the L.A. Weekly, (where I had
been the entertainment editor) ran a full-blown expose on Lenz, complete
with all the sordid details.

Several weeks later, Frederick Lenz did a Houdini. The rented Malibu
mansion was abandoned. The phones were cut off. Bank accounts were closed.

Yep. Zen Man had vanished.

.

So now Zen Man had decided to “leave this plane.”..several nights later, while watching a “Dateline” special on Lenz’
death, I experienced an unexpected emotion. As I watched Lenz during an
interview he’d conducted a year prior to his death, I studied his
countenance. On the surface, Lenz was his usual smug, arrogant self. But it
was the face that got to me. It was the face not simply of a monumentally
unhappy man — it was a face that was literally haunted. A face of someone
who was totally empty. Soulless. And as I started at that face, despite
myself, for the first time I felt genuine pity for the man called Frederick
Lenz.

Read more at [mobile.wnd.com]

Re: So you see a sign advertising 'Free Meditation'...

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Back in 1994, when a technology consultant who was Lenz' disciple was asked about
her guru, she reportedly threw a fit.

Quote

When a television crew recently interviewed Christine Comaford, president of Corporate Computing, a Chicago-based consulting firm, they did not tell her what they wanted. Comaford is a regular columnist for PC Week and a pundit on Microsoft's role in the computer software industry. She is also a "student" of Dr. Frederick P. Lenz III, a mysterious and alleged cult leader who convinces followers like Comaford to work in computers, live by his strict rules, and worship him as a god. The interviewer began by asking Comaford general questions about computers. When he changed the subject to Dr. Lenz, the real purpose of the interview, she became hysterical and asked them to leave.

"They totally misrepresented themselves, and they'll be hearing from my attorney," she said when I asked her about the confrontation. Like most curious journalists, they did hear from Lenz's lawyers, but nothing came of it

For more, read here.

The Code Cult of the CPU Guru

[www.wired.com]

Re: Don Hanson and Jennifer Hanson of Transforming Cellular Memory and Cellular Transformation


Re: The Kingdom of the Divine Will - Luisa Piccarreta

Re: New Acropolis Cultural Association

Re: REAL LOVE

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Another thing keeps us trapped.

We become afraid of talking about what we have been told to do.

Why?

Because at some level, we are scared to have someone look at us horrified
and say, "They had you do WHAT?"

This leads us either not to tell our outside friends, family coworkers
what is going on in an exploitative group or relationship --- or
we cut ourselves off from anyone who might express dismay if
we tell them what goes in in the group or relationship.

It gets exhausting to "commute" between our increasingly strange lives
inside an exploitative shame laden relationship and our outside relationships.

As time goes on, we have more and more secrets to keep. Commmuting back and forth
between these two worlds gets more and more tiring.

It becomes easy to just let our outside friendships and other relationships drop away.

This isolates us and traps us within the network of relationships, the echo chamber inside the group.

"Rama" Frederick Lenz recruiters - Clues and Tip Offs

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As Lenz became controversial, he moved his operation to different parts of the country.

[www.nytimes.com]

Rama Meditation Society -

[www.ramameditationsociety.org]

As noted above, some signs that someone or something might be tied to Frederick Lenz/aka Zen Master Rama.

Lenz and his followers use these terms a lot.

"Stop thought" "impeccable" and -- "impeccable"

"Stopping thought" or "stop thought" (Corboy note: this is NOT Zen practice and it is not mindfulness practice, either. It may derive from Lenz's time with Chinmoy, who was a Hindu guru.

*Stopping thought disrupts any doubts or gut warnings you're getting*

"Stop thought" is like riding your bicycle while grabbing the brakes at the same time. This disrupts your critical thinking and robs you of access to your BS detector.

[www.google.com]

Impeccable -- Lenz may have picked this up from Carlos Castaneda

[www.google.com]

More themes tied to Frederick Lenz and his followers today.

Negative spiritual and auric forces, Karma yoga, tantra/tantric zen, Atlantis, Egypt, Music Asian martial arts, Buddhism, Computer/Information Technology, meditation music, talk of menacing occult forces. Earlier Lenz recruits may have spent time in New York.


Negative spirits, energies, forces -- Lenz emphasized these as he became more paranoid. This is from Western metaphysics, NOT genuine Buddhist practice.

Quote


[www.nytimes.com]

"It's not just that he has a positive message of how to live one's life," Mr. Markowitz said. "It's that he has hundreds of people who are intimately under his daily control, which includes severing their ties with their families and helping to deceive their families."

Ms. Walker, the former student who studied with Dr. Lenz for five years, said that he told his students that families were filled with negative energy.

"He told us that our families did not want us to evolve spiritually, that they drain our energy," Ms. Walker said. "He had a lot of different ways to isolate us. If someone didn't like you, you should stay away from them. If they did like you, they just wanted to steal your energy. So you should stay away from them, too. And anyone in the group was competition."

[www.google.com]

Karma Yoga

[www.google.com]

Tantra/Tantric Zen

[www.google.com]

* Atlantis and Egypt

[www.google.com]

Music

[www.google.com]

Martial Arts

[www.google.com]



Karma yoga is a concept from Hinduism, not from Buddhism. Do be aware that Frederick Lenz started out as a disciple of a Hindu guru (and sex predator) named Chinmoy. So one trademark of Lenz is his incongruous mixture of Hindu terminology and Buddhist terminology. Chinmoy was into physical fitness,
a theme Lenz carried on in his own franchise.





His name, Zen Master Rama is a perfect example of this.

Any sign of fact checking on your part will be discouraged. Remember, genuine Buddhist practice and Asian martial arts are deeply rooted in traceable lineages. A teacher should be able to trace his or her teacher back through many generations and this lineage should be verifiable from sources independent of your teacher.

Truthfulness in the factual sense is a basic test of character. If your teacher
cannot be up front about his or her teacher, all bets are off.

Karma yoga, tantra, Asian martial arts, Buddhism, computers, meditation music.

References to Star Trek and Carlos Castaeneda (who himself was a cult leader and cruelly preyed on women, btw)

Lenzie's do not mention Lenz' name to outsiders who might be unsympathetic saying it is too intimate or too private. They wait until they know you are
so emotionally invested that you'll discount any kind of warning because 'it wont be your experience." Experiences can be manipulated - Frederick Lenz disciples are MIND HACKERS.

Bodyguards. Lenz had creepy control freak enforcers at his events. Some of his
successors do the same. As noted by the LA Weekly reporter, Lenz also had music at his events to set the mood.

Lenz obsessed that he was vulnerable to occult forces -- note that this is NOT something that ever comes up in genuine Zen teaching. This is a borrowing from Western metaphysics, NOT from Zen Buddhism.

Tip off:

They throw fits and freak out if someone else mentions Lenz's name. Frederick Lenz loyalists do this when outsiders penetrate the disguise.

Computers, martial arts, a hodge podge of other teacher's names.

Lenz got his disciples into computer work in the early days. He was also into martial arts. He had intimidating looking body guards at his lectures.

Interestingly, a so called Buddhist teacher named "Nicole Grace" reportedly had
body guards at her lectures and forbade being photographed.

When a CEI message board discussion tied her to Frederick Lenz, people got very upset.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Legitimate Buddhist teachers are not hidden names. If someone teaches Buddhist meditation, he or she MUST be able to name their teacher and their lineage, and it
has to be a lineage that can be fact checked using sources other than those given by the instructor.

If someone has zero history online yet claims to have studied for decades with a bunch of illustrious teachers, those teachers should all have histories that can be found online via multiple sources.

Threats

[www.wired.com]

Quote

According to Jim Picariello, a devout Lenzie who left the cult a little more than two years ago, "initially, people joined seeking compassion, but came to learn that Lenz's brand of spiritualism was equated with money and power." Fear and "phobia indoctrination" were Lenz's means of manipulation, Picariello claims, adding that monthly meetings with Lenz were a "karmic slate cleaning ­ whether you'd screwed someone over, or lied on your résumé Š Lenz wiped your slate totally clean." But, says Picariello, Lenz also warned his youthful acolytes about the horrific "slap back" they'd receive if they left the cult: a karmic punch in the form of cancer, a fatal car accident, even insanity.

TeamAlliance, TeamSource, Client/Server Connection, Wall Street Forecasts Ltd., Retail Forecasting Systems Inc., and Interglobal Seminars Inc. form only a partial list of the companies bearing Lenz's name or fingerprints. What clients of these companies often don't realize, according to some who have retained their services, is that Lenz stays in close contact with these employees, who report directly to him or his high-level emissaries.

A self-proclaimed Buddhist, Lenz looks every bit the mogul, with bodyguards, two estates, a fleet of cars, and chartered jets. Perhaps industry watchdog Wendy Vandame, editor of New Jersey's Consultants' and Contractors' Newsletter, has stated it most plainly: "It's more than a cult story. Now it's big business."

How Fred Lenz recruited -Universities and College Campuses

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If you are a university student, especially if you are majoring in the STEM
(Science Technology Engineering Medicine) departments, you have HIGH INCOME potential.

If you already have a Ph.D or MD - you are off the scale valuable.

You are a high value investment to add to the cult's portfolio of living breathing trusting people.

And if you are a STEM major and are a charismatic brilliant woman -- beware. You are especially valuable. Women trust other women, and if just one brilliant woman is recruited into an exploitative group, other women are more likely to ignore their misgivings.

STREET BRAWL IN THE TWILIGHT ZONE


[www.wired.com]

Quote

Quote

Lenz's small band of believers searched for recruits on college campuses throughout the nation. One campaign involved 100 disciples distributing 4,000 posters and 100,000 promotional newsletters in California alone. Newcomers were invited to meditation sessions where, in an upper-octave monotone, Lenz promised to take them into the "light."

Lenz didn't accept just anyone. He was interested only in bright, diligent, presentable followers, so he required people to fill out lengthy applications - with photos attached. (Typical question: "Do you hear voices, or do you communicate with nonphysical beings?") Those who made the cut were taught what Lenz called American Buddhism, which included "what matters: making money."

Lenz had the foresight to recognize that computer programming for mainstream institutions, including Wall Street banks, held far more potential than, say, street-corner flower sales. He urged his flock to learn the basics of programming at Computer Learning Centers. Lenz said computer training was integral to practicing Buddhism; he insisted that writing code is like doing yoga, that it "puts you in a very high place."

"It was quite a radical thing to take people who were used to eating granola and send them down to Wall Street," recalls William Arntz, who was a Lenz student for 12 years, until 1994. "He said it was a warrior's task to go down there. He said the good thing about programming was that you can see how clear you are by how good your code works."

"In a lot of ways," says a current follower who, like several others, declined to be identified, "your computer career became a vehicle for studying Buddhism."

Lenz was certainly right about one thing: the shortage of skilled programmers in the early '80s. Coders like Arntz who were proficient in SQL or Fortran made $50 an hour, a rate that more than doubled by decade's end. From their earnings, followers would eventually pay Lenz a monthly tuition ranging from $125 for college students to $5,000 for the highest earners. Some would fork over as much as $1,000 to have dinner with the man who clued them in on everything from what to wear (Armani evoked authority, he said, while Calvin Klein was for wimps) to where to live (he endorsed certain "power" centers, like Westchester County in suburban New York).

Some disgruntled members charged Lenz with being a drug-ingesting charlatan.

Invoking a theme from Carlos Castaneda, Lenz told followers that their paths would be smoother if they made themselves "inaccessible" to outsiders who might drain their energy. That meant creating an elaborate shield to conceal their physical whereabouts: relying on post-office boxes, hiding behind email. Buying into the Lenz trip often meant moving every six months or so - whenever he requested it - and acquiring no more material goods than you could stuff in a car. It appeared that he mistrusted not only outsiders but his own students as well.

"This was a man who made you sign an eight-page form if you went out with him on a date," says a lapsed follower now living in the New York area. Lenz warned students that the backlash for leaving the group included personal tragedies like cancer and fatal car crashes.

Quote

Quote

The Lenzies often did respectable work, but not always. "I was one of the first people to give computer training, and I had only one year of data processing," recalls former member Mark Lurtsema. "Let's put it this way: Those courses were not college level." In the Consultants' and Contractors' Newsletter, whose readership includes managers who hire computer programmers in and around New York City, editor Wendy Vandame frequently reported on the impact of unseasoned Lenz followers at places like Nynex and Deutsche Bank. She estimates that, from about 1987 to 1994, Lenz's people caused millions of dollars in business losses in the New York metropolitan area, the result of missed project deadlines and spending on services that were inadequate or misrepresented.

Still, the Lenzies proliferated, in part because their technical training was backed with seminars about aggressive job hunting. One training document goes so far as to suggest, "Have a friend using a pseudonym act as your reference person."

Corboy note: The Buddhist precepts warn against lying.

This alone shows that Lenz was out for himself, not a Buddhist at all.
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