Shambhala Head Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche Accused-reddit

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[–]oliness 20 points 2 days ago
So sad to hear that yet another Buddhist teacher has abused women and broken the precepts. The report contains graphic sexual accounts and perhaps needs a trigger warning, but the passage that really stood out for me is this:

"Don’t tell me to not have any dark hidden corners of my mind and then insist Shambhala and the Sakyong need some. Don’t instruct me to lean in and visualize and dissolve into someone who deeply violated not just my physical/sexual boundaries, but who took advantage of my spiritual boundaries/experience/practice too. Don’t tell me to push myself to the brink of suicide and just accept it because Marpa was abusive. Stop accusing me of wanting the headlines,
attention or money."

I read that and thought: please everyone we MUST stop doing this. So many people on this and other forums do exactly what she's describing. We justify (particularly on here Trungpa's) clearly abusive actions with tales of Marpa and Milarepa, with exhortations to forget the teacher and remember the teaching, with asking people to give up their critical judgment and accept that clearly wrong actions have a wisdom we can't comprehend.

Let's not enable any more abuse by demanding that all teachers and practioners obey the 5 precepts, that men show respect for women, and that we will never sacrifice our intelligence or our moral conscience to maintain a guru mystique around any human being.


[–]RustGal 24 points 2 days ago
" Both women, whose names were not included, alleged that the encounters took place at or after alcohol-fueled private parties that were thrown for the Sakyong." And then Shambhala has closed ranks to prevent a full and transparent investigation.

Chip off the old Trungpa block, unfortunately.


[–]KimUnTeslay?na 10 points 2 days ago
The 3 women's devastating accounts should be read in full and learned from.

[andreamwinn.com]


[–]RinpocheAgain 7 points 1 day ago
Second, reading this is transformative and models how religion can be reformed.


[–]celebratedmrk 6 points 2 days ago
Chip off the old Trungpa block, unfortunately.

The irony is a bit too much. I mean, come on, did he not learn anything from his old man's fall from grace?


[–]RustGal 3 points 1 day ago
The irony is a bit too much. I mean, come on, did he not learn anything from his old man's fall from grace?

I KNOW. And its not like the details are hidden - there have been widely distributed books and articles. Maybe there is a more deeply entrenched culture of entitlement (kingship?) in Shambhala than we outsiders (I practice Zen) realize. But still, this shows that at least previously there was a very significant lack of self-knowledge present, and a lot of giving in to passion, aggression, and ignorance. Very, very glad I've never invested in any of the Sakyong's books or seminars. I won't be now.


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 1 day ago
Maybe there is a more deeply entrenched culture of entitlement (kingship?) in Shambhala than we outsiders (I practice Zen) realize.

Maybe for the Sakyong and his inner circle. Most of us haven't seen it that way until now. After the "regency controversy" 30 years ago, it's been a long process of rebuilding trust. And just like that....

[–]RustGal 3 points 1 day ago
I should have phrased my comment better, because what you said is what I meant. The culture of being king and deserving all things would be (IMO) a continuation of the Chogyam Trungpa era of recreating the Kingdom of Shambhala, with all of the trappings and formalities that required at the time. I have no doubt that individual practitioners who aren't of Trungpa blood (or marriage) are expected to behave properly and normally, and generally do so.


[–]fgiii 1 point 1 day ago
...drops the mic.


[–]kausidya 9 points 2 days ago
Like I said on my FB - I already see a bunch of people feeling discouraged and unable to attend their Shambhala centers, which is totally understandable and I'm really sorry. As someone who loves learning about Buddhism and practicing so much, it hurts to know all the people are out there now feeling spiritually robbed.

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[–]Uqbaritibetan 6 points 2 days ago
They should feel discouraged. Shamhala is a cult and should be shunned.


[–]starebearcare 15 points 2 days ago
While there are clearly some deeply troubling things occurring at the center of the mandala, the day-to-day experience of practicing at a local Shambhala Center is not cult-like at all. I’ve practiced with the community for ten years and have been heavily involved with my local center as well as attending retreats at the land centers. I have never taken the leap to become a Vajrayana student, partly because while I love the Shambhala teachings and have encountered many wonderful teachers in the organization, I have never felt a strong connection to the Sakyong.

It doesn’t ring true to dismiss Shambhala as a cult. There are a number of different ways that people participate in Shambhala. Many people have been introduced to mindfulness, meditation, and dharma through their local Shambhala centers, and it has changed their lives for the better (in their own words). My experience of the organization has always been that there is no pressure to participate more than one wants to. People are free to have other spiritual or religious orientations in addition to their participation in Shambhala, and often do, which is not the case with cults.

All this to say, the things that are coming to light are heartbreaking for all the people who are connected to the Shambhala community and who derive genuine spiritual benefit from the sangha. It is not as simple as, “good, now everyone sees what’s happening and can be liberated from that cult.” The loss of trust in the organization will leave many people estranged from a community that they experienced as healthy and supportive.

[+]Uqbari comment score below threshold (2 children)


[–]MettaMettaMetta 4 points 2 days ago
I was raised in an actual cult. I think you may be generous with your words.

[–]Uqbaritibetan 6 points 1 day ago
There's a scale of cultishness, with Scientology as one extreme, and CofE on the other. I don't think the Trungpa people have murdered anybody, and they don't aim for 100 % exploitation the way Scientology does, but neither are they a particularly open, enlightened organization. It is controlled or "owned" by an elite which is not really answerable to anybody, except perhaps financially, and has no real ethical principles.


[–]MettaMettaMetta 1 point 1 day ago
Yeah they have some lapsed ethical concerns for sure. It’s probably one bad rotten bite on an otherwise fresh apple.


[–]albillkorean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
One? You are aware of Trungpa's behavior and that of his designated heir, following his death? You know, the one that knowingly gave people HIV?

[–]MettaMettaMetta 2 points 1 day ago
What I mean is that the teachings (from what I have read) are solid Buddhist teachings.

You can find a murderer, rapists, thief etc...in every sect and group known to man. Doesn’t mean the teachings are bad.

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 3 points 21 hours ago
Except not all sects and groups are run by current murderers and rapists.


[–]Hen-steppermadhyamaka 7 points 2 days ago
If anyone considered Sakyong Mipham their guru or you have felt strongly connected with Shambhala, don't give up.

I had a connection to Tsem Tulku before some news surfaced a few years ago. It really sucks when that spiritual carpet is pulled out from underneath you -- that's the one thing that's supposed to be the backbone in your life that doesn't change throughout every hardship. If you can get over this and move on, which you can, then you can get over anything.

IMO read up on the masters, study the source texts, and consider Sakyong Mipham (or whichever Shambhala teacher you had) a spiritual friend who shared basic dharma with you. Just like any friend, they are prone to faults and human suffering. They should not be held as a guru, but should also not held as an enemy whose teachings you should immediately purge. Gradually over time you'll figure out which teachings to abandon and which to retain, and it may surprise you how much you retain, in a positive way.

Most dharma centers have a senior student teach basic dharma, these students like us are prone to faults but can still provide very useful information, so it may be good to see him that way.


[–]Uqbaritibetan 6 points 2 days ago
The worst part about the Tsem situation was how many people knew, but wouldn't tell anybody. A lot of them had signed non-disclosure agreements, but outside of his organization, others were reluctant to speak ill of any lama. Not even the Dalai Lama's offices would say anything--apparently seekers were supposed to just intuit that Tsem was lying about which protector he was propitiating. The DL himself finally spoke up about Sogyal, decades after his behavior was common knowledge.


[–]RinpocheAgain 1 point 1 day ago
Yup


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 1 point 1 day ago
Most dharma centers have a senior student teach basic dharma, these students like us are prone to faults but can still provide very useful information, so it may be good to see him that way.

Problem is, this "senior student" is the lineage holder of the Shambhala teachings.

[–]Hen-steppermadhyamaka 1 point 1 day ago
It might be a good opportunity to look into Naropa, Marpa, Milarepa.

[–]albillkorean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
Who are all conveniently dead so not molesting anyone?

[–]Hen-steppermadhyamaka 1 point 1 day ago
They are responsible for the Kagyu tradition which is Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche's (founder of Shambhala's) actual lineage.

[–]albillkorean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
Yes, theoretically, they are. Decades of various scandals have shown that the tradition only acts when forced to do so by public embarrassments. Ponder all the times they censured Chogyam Trungpa or Kalu Rinpoche... (In reference to the tradition...)

If you mean the semi-mythical dead people, sorry, I don't believe dead people, who are empty of inherent existence after all, are going to swoop in and magically fix things.!

korean s?n 1 point 1 day ago
My point is appealing to dead people doesn't solve current problems and the current organizations don't solve it either. People should go in with their eyes open.

Personally, I have severe issues with guru-based systems because of things like abuse scandals.


[–]RoaminRonin13non-affiliated 17 points 2 days ago
I’ve had an on again / off again relationship with Shambhala - usually more because it can be a weird, “Buddhism Lite” school of thought with some new-age type tendencies. This is it for me.

Trungpa, while obviously quite controversial himself, holds a special place in my practice due to a few of his books - but the fact that Shambhala is incapable, it seems, of riding itself of what appears to be rampant sexual abuse over the years is abhorrent.

Regardless of how all this turns out, it seems more than fair to say the community has some kind of root problem where these issues keep coming up. As the quote in the article mentions, when patterns emerge they point towards truth - it’s hard to argue there isn’t a problem with this community.

As an aside, I would argue that it’s basically impossible to have an “appropriate” sexual relationship with one’s dharma teacher or guru. It’s not the same as a college professor dating a grad student - the relationship is much more profound and personal in the first place, and I’m not sure that you’re ever in an appropriate position to give proper consent. You’ve placed your spiritual development in this persons hands, to some extent, and then you’re asked to decide if screwing them is OK?

That’s just terrible.

[–]KimUnTeslay?na 7 points 2 days ago*
In case someone thinks he was practicing karmamudra, the women alleged that he "used kusung [personal attendants] to procure women for his own sexual pleasure, not for any spiritual purpose".

[andreamwinn.com]

[–]fgiii 9 points 2 days ago
Dang. All of this sounds very 'culty'.

[–]wundertunge 2 points 1 day ago
It really does, and as a student and practitioner of these teachings, I'm having some serious cognitive dissonance.

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[–]RoaminRonin13non-affiliated 2 points 1 day ago
I disagree on the celibacy.

I know that’s a point of contention around here - but “enlightened beings” aside, I don’t think you’re dharma teacher / guru needs to be celibate to be trustworthy. We’re all human.

I do think that it’s important to keep things separated and “professional”, for lack of a better term, in this regard, however, and that even if consent is given you’ve taken advantage of your position by seeking a physical relationship with one of your students in your sangha. I can’t think of a situation where that would be acceptable.


[–]oliness 1 point 18 hours ago
To clarify, by "guru" I mean someone considered perfectly enlightened, whose every action is to be regarded as a perfect teaching. If anyone is in that position, they should demonstrate that they are beyond earthly desires.

It's different for someone who is passing on the teachings illuminated by their own experience. They're not claiming that all their actions are necessarily pure. Anyone with some meditation experience can teach to a degree to others. But treating someone as a fully enlightened guru means they need to be held to a high standard.


[–]rimbaud1872 13 points 2 days ago
Shambhala has been corrupt from the start. How many more victims of crazy wisdom do we need?

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[–]wundertunge 2 points 2 days ago
That's not my point. As a Shambhala practitioner, I'm sad, confused, disappointed, and angry with the Sakyong. What the OP of my response said is that unequivocally, no teachers are safe to follow.

To answer your question, probably not...in his final lifetime. Then again, I wasn't there

[–]vhbxxd 1 point 2 days ago
I understand how you feel. I’m going through the same thing myself. Obviously, his statement about no teachers being safe to follow is false. It would just be harder to find a teacher whom you can trust.

[–]easternhorizon 2 points 1 day ago
This is heartbreaking, especially since I didn't even know who this was until a few hours ago, when I listened to his interview on the 10% Happier Podcast. I was amazed by him, and was coincidentally reading his book. And then to read this just a few hours later...

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 1 point 20 hours ago
You dodged a bullet, it's a good thing