Disgusted by news about the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche Reddit

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Disgusted by news about the Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche sexual abuse of Shambhala community members - and concerned my teacher may whitewash it. self.Buddhism

Submitted 1 day ago by RustGal

I study with a Buddhist teacher who had some Shambhala training (I am not in that lineage, he teaches from more than one lineage). He's always had good things to say about Chogyam Trungpa, and has written off the many stories of drunken, inappropriate conduct as "crazy wisdom to meet people where they are." I think that is BS and I'm deeply conflicted with having a "teacher" anyway, so I have no desire to push myself to also accept/enable/explain in order to resolve cognitive dissonance, etc.. But it's never been an issue before.

"Teacher" has photos of the Sakyong around his space. If he brushes this off as "crazy wisdom reaching out to meet people in their own craziness" I am out of there. I kind of dread hearing his thoughts on this, and I also kind of want to hear them right now too.

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[–]lingua42tibetan 6 points 23 hours ago
Speaking as a practitioner in a Tibetan lineage with indirect connections to Shambhala... I hear you, and it's worth being careful.

One really helpful concept is that of "yana confusion"--the idea that people get in trouble because they confuse bits of Sutrayana vs. Vajrayana, or Hinayana* vs. Mahayana vs. Vajrayana. Notably, I think a lot of people get mixed up about the concept of guru/lama in Tantra vs. a more general teacher as in Sutra or Tantra.

If you have a guru-disciple relationship with someone, you're bound by samaya. This don't stop you from dissociating from them if they do bad things, but it does make some things more complicated.

If you don't have a tantric samaya with respect to someone, you have no obligations outside general human decency. I can't say whether or not your teacher is doing this, but I've definitely seen people with a non-tantric relationship to a teacher act like they're supposed to see them as enlightened in the way you do if bound by samaya--and that's dangerous. Part of this confusion may come from the ambiguous use of the word "teacher" to cover both kinds of relationships.

In this day and age, your teacher should be able to understand the importance of, you know, not raping people. If he's taken tantric initiation from the Sakyong, there's nothing stopping him from maintaining guru devotion privately and even keeping a picture of the Sakyong at his personal meditation altar--but doing so publicly is a very different matter.

If you haven't seen them yet, I highly recommend Lama Willa Miller's pieces in Lion's Roar (cw for testimony of sexual misconduct)--this article

[www.lionsroar.com]

and others linked at the bottom of the page. You might also be interested in Lama Rod's audio teachings, "When the teacher fucks up" available here.

(Corboy note: when I clicked on the URL for this article, I got a security warning. The URL for the security warning includes siteadvisor dot com/phishing.html? )

[www.siteadvisor.com]

I'm deeply conflicted with having a "teacher" anyway

This is a bigger question, but for now, I'd urge you to remember that "having a teacher" is only relevant for tantra. If you're not doing tantra, the guru-stuff doesn't apply, and so your relationship to teachers in Tibetan lineages isn't that different from the relationship to teachers in non-Tibetan lineages--teachers are still important, obviously, but not In That Way. If you are doing tantra, and this is an issue, I recommend talking with a qualified teacher (possibly a woman) you trust about the problem.

Also, even in tantra, there's no such thing as having just one teacher--it's healthy and good to learn from several.

If he brushes this off as "crazy wisdom reaching out to meet people in their own craziness" I am out of there.

I'd probably do the same. Some of my teachers--including Lama Willa and Lama Rod--have worked with lamas who have committed really terrible acts, including to them personally. They have no illusions about what went on. Any teacher worth their salt has at best a complex opinion of Trungpa Rinpoche and doesn't dismiss that he and others did things that were wrong.

*I wish I could remember where I heard this; ironically, it might be from Trungpa Rinpoche. Oh dear.

**Disclaimer: In the technical sense of Tibetan Buddhist philosophy, of a practitioner seeking individual liberation rather than full Buddhahood. These three yanas are types of practitioners, not lineages.

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[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 1 point 18 hours ago
This is a great comment, thank you.

[–]Randalf_the_Dope 3 points 1 day ago*
Definitely hard news to consume. Just shows how strong our animalistic instincts can be, even in those who are fully aware of them.

I'd say the important thing to be mindful of when hearing your teacher discuss this is to search for Truth. If what they say doesn't resonate with you, take note and meditate on it. Then proceed with what feels right with you.

I also feel it is unfair to categorize Trungpa's alcohol cravings (which does not harm others) with Sakyong's manipulation of students. Just something to keep in mind.

[–]77dale 2 points 1 day ago
I'm kind of in the same boat, I go weekly to open meditation/discussion group at a local Shambala center and I have been/will remain aloof to the Shambala structure and guru orientation (I mostly take my teachings from Theravada anyway). I love the community and will continue to participate and am similarly curious as to how this will be addressed and what I have to contribute to collective understanding;

[–]Host-the 2 points 23 hours ago
Hi-- I would suggest talking to them directly and not just pretending nothing is wrong, and if they respond in a negative way or in an indirect, unhelpful way, I would move on. I am sure there are others in your area! but please do TALK to them first--give them a chance to speak their mind and TRY to understand their point of view on the situation. Sometimes things happen and we don't try to confront it and just let it burn beneath the surface. Instead talk it out, and if there is a problem, find another option.

[–]bodhiquestvajrayana 2 points 1 day ago
Having a teacher is nothing to be conflicted about. Just because Buddhism is a "mental" discipline doesn't mean that you can go at it completely alone, just like how you can't learn a martial art from books.

With that being said, teachers come in all sorts. The one you have right now isn't necessarily the best fit for you. I also would be very uncomfortable with the kind of whitewashing you mention, and I don't think there's anything wrong with moving on if things turn out as you speculate.

Hearing your teacher's thoughts about the issue would be the best IMO, even if it's difficult.

[–]albillkorean s?n -3 points 1 day ago
[www.reddit.com]

Do we need two threads on this? The other one has over 120 comments already.


[–]krodha[????] 9 points 1 day ago
Prob best to let people vent. It is a big deal, after all.

[–]albillkorean s?n -1 points 1 day ago
True but also same shit, different day. I mean, we've had Noah Levine in the last two months too.

The Sakyong has always been a marginal figure living in his father's shadow as some kind of faux king.

[–]Uqbaritibetan 3 points 1 day ago
And yet the Trungpa people prop him up. Guess they like having a Ronald McDonald type figure to help with marketing and fund-raising.


[–]TharpaLodroshambhala 3 points 18 hours ago
Different communities mean a different set of people who have to come to terms with this on a personal level.

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