Sorry about the way you feel, you did the right thing coming here it will help expose and will hopefully help your wife and you.
↧
Re: "The New Message From God" an odd and mostly overlooked cult. They have my wife.
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
To each their own. I have not had a enlightening experience in the cult. The mantras work when you are in a lively kirtan in the same fashion that a rock concert makes one feel free and happy. Chanting on beads alone was always stressful as you were asked to chant 16 rounds and spent majority of the morning trying to bang through the rounds so you can get on with your life.
There is no science behind the Gunas and other ideas in the vedas. None. It was not systematically ever studied nor tested. It is the opinion of a few men. Mostly brahmins and mostly amalgamations of buddhist and advaitist philosophy mixed with devotional rhetoric and myth. It holds no water. It may feel pleasant for some time but after a while it becomes routine like all other activities. This is likely why the butler cult mixes things up with other spiritual practices like yoga Nidra and pleasant music—because they need to try to keep it all fresh for new recruits.
I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive. There is a lot of great knowledge in the eastern scriptures and philosophical works. Much of it is pluralistic and even Chaitanyas final offering of Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is a sort of apologist stance that basically states what we already know when we seriously ascertain all spiritual ideas: It's inconceivable. It's a paradox and it's not a singular method that can be applied to all seekers of truth. Everyone approaches "god" or the idea of a higher power or spiritual path in their own unique way. Why? Because we are all unique. The junkie versus the disillusioned successful business man will approach spirituality with different intent, reason and quality.
Butler is a man. A man who himself is affected by his mind and ideas. He has a past filled with drug use and hatred and anger toward minorities and obvious anger issues. He is cynical and controlling and neurotic in his day to day behavior. His followers are westerners looking for cheap solutions to lifes problems. They swallow the pill of his version of gaudiya vaishnavism with the naive idealism of a child. This type of nativity started with ISKCON as devotees hit the streets in the 60s madly engulfed by the charism and novelty of Prabhupada. They did not question his teachings, ideas or approach because it was quickly made clear by Prabhupada and his fanatical GBC that doing so will destroy ones spiritual life. This threat of imminent doom is a classic state of cults. I understand it may not be the intention of the leaders or fanatical followers to "scare" people, but that is the subversive final effect. People adhere, don't question and blindly follow out of a place of fear. And the fear runs very deep. Devotees will reject their family, friends, society and a host of illogical fears take hold.
Nowadays, the devotees of Butler are quick to sue, file lawsuits and libel suits. It's their modern day Narasigha dev. In many ways it shows plainly their weak faith in their gods and deep insecurity surrounding their spiritual masters actions. How else can it be viewed? They don't explain their guru's actions and words and behavior. They don't explain their spiritual practices honestly and plainly and hide behind pleasant music and yoga Nidra and yoga asana breath work. They scream religious bigotry when people show them plainly a video of their guru talking like some low level sailor about homosexuals and muslims. They find nothing odd about the numerous letters of Prabhupada literally accusing Butler of property theft etc. About him marrying his own successful yoga personality disciple and abandoning his sanyasi order. About operating schools for young boys and girls and showing them and making them listen to vile anger and hate filled lectures. About direct ties of his various businesses to utter fraud and scamming schemes. About his odd proclivity to gain political momentum on a world-wide scale via his brainwashed flip flopping Tulsi disciple etc etc. And this is just the stuff we are aware of and ready to speak against. There are MANY other disciples who choose to hide, remain nameless or have been silenced by complicity.
I have spoken personally to ex-followers who have told me they have MUCH MUCH more information about financial schemes, odd behavior etc. Once such ex-devotee even mentioned money laundering and another started that Butler had many of his devotees attend Gay parades, go to gay clubs and organization and pretend to be gay so they can give Butler "intel". What business does a Gaudiya Vaishnava guru have in such affairs? Why does Butler know so much about homosexual sex practices. I recall as a young boy hearing lectures wherein butler graphically described many fringe sex acts. Why were we allowed and made to listen to this and write essays on these topics? Why were we groomed to have such fear and hatred towards other Krishna groups, religions, women, family etc??? Was this a well rounded education of any sort? What spiritual benefit came from such things?
When all is said and done, if a person is happy in this cult, by all means continue. But I truly question ones sanity and sense of well being and self when this is all passed off as "acceptable" and "justified" by virtue of it's relation to the blue god Krishna. If this is what passes as "spiritual life" we are living in truly backwards times indeed.
There is no science behind the Gunas and other ideas in the vedas. None. It was not systematically ever studied nor tested. It is the opinion of a few men. Mostly brahmins and mostly amalgamations of buddhist and advaitist philosophy mixed with devotional rhetoric and myth. It holds no water. It may feel pleasant for some time but after a while it becomes routine like all other activities. This is likely why the butler cult mixes things up with other spiritual practices like yoga Nidra and pleasant music—because they need to try to keep it all fresh for new recruits.
I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive. There is a lot of great knowledge in the eastern scriptures and philosophical works. Much of it is pluralistic and even Chaitanyas final offering of Achintya-Bheda-Abheda is a sort of apologist stance that basically states what we already know when we seriously ascertain all spiritual ideas: It's inconceivable. It's a paradox and it's not a singular method that can be applied to all seekers of truth. Everyone approaches "god" or the idea of a higher power or spiritual path in their own unique way. Why? Because we are all unique. The junkie versus the disillusioned successful business man will approach spirituality with different intent, reason and quality.
Butler is a man. A man who himself is affected by his mind and ideas. He has a past filled with drug use and hatred and anger toward minorities and obvious anger issues. He is cynical and controlling and neurotic in his day to day behavior. His followers are westerners looking for cheap solutions to lifes problems. They swallow the pill of his version of gaudiya vaishnavism with the naive idealism of a child. This type of nativity started with ISKCON as devotees hit the streets in the 60s madly engulfed by the charism and novelty of Prabhupada. They did not question his teachings, ideas or approach because it was quickly made clear by Prabhupada and his fanatical GBC that doing so will destroy ones spiritual life. This threat of imminent doom is a classic state of cults. I understand it may not be the intention of the leaders or fanatical followers to "scare" people, but that is the subversive final effect. People adhere, don't question and blindly follow out of a place of fear. And the fear runs very deep. Devotees will reject their family, friends, society and a host of illogical fears take hold.
Nowadays, the devotees of Butler are quick to sue, file lawsuits and libel suits. It's their modern day Narasigha dev. In many ways it shows plainly their weak faith in their gods and deep insecurity surrounding their spiritual masters actions. How else can it be viewed? They don't explain their guru's actions and words and behavior. They don't explain their spiritual practices honestly and plainly and hide behind pleasant music and yoga Nidra and yoga asana breath work. They scream religious bigotry when people show them plainly a video of their guru talking like some low level sailor about homosexuals and muslims. They find nothing odd about the numerous letters of Prabhupada literally accusing Butler of property theft etc. About him marrying his own successful yoga personality disciple and abandoning his sanyasi order. About operating schools for young boys and girls and showing them and making them listen to vile anger and hate filled lectures. About direct ties of his various businesses to utter fraud and scamming schemes. About his odd proclivity to gain political momentum on a world-wide scale via his brainwashed flip flopping Tulsi disciple etc etc. And this is just the stuff we are aware of and ready to speak against. There are MANY other disciples who choose to hide, remain nameless or have been silenced by complicity.
I have spoken personally to ex-followers who have told me they have MUCH MUCH more information about financial schemes, odd behavior etc. Once such ex-devotee even mentioned money laundering and another started that Butler had many of his devotees attend Gay parades, go to gay clubs and organization and pretend to be gay so they can give Butler "intel". What business does a Gaudiya Vaishnava guru have in such affairs? Why does Butler know so much about homosexual sex practices. I recall as a young boy hearing lectures wherein butler graphically described many fringe sex acts. Why were we allowed and made to listen to this and write essays on these topics? Why were we groomed to have such fear and hatred towards other Krishna groups, religions, women, family etc??? Was this a well rounded education of any sort? What spiritual benefit came from such things?
When all is said and done, if a person is happy in this cult, by all means continue. But I truly question ones sanity and sense of well being and self when this is all passed off as "acceptable" and "justified" by virtue of it's relation to the blue god Krishna. If this is what passes as "spiritual life" we are living in truly backwards times indeed.
↧
↧
Re: Mooji a cult?
Good material on the cult of Mooji in this article here: "SEASON OF THE LIE" by Kosi Ireland [www.kosi.org]
Here are a couple of excerpts:
"Florentin (Flo) Camoin and Helen Kelby are dead. Flo committed suicide at Mooji’s ashram known as Monte Sahaja—a spiritual community in Portugal steeped in the teaching of his master HWL Poonja better known as Papaji. Helen reportedly killed herself in India during a Mooji retreat. Indescribable heartbreak is the word that best describes the earth-shattering feeling of loved ones left behind when someone they love takes their own life—suicide is brutally painful and often an earth-shattering shock. But many current and former students of Mooji were not at all shocked or surprised by this news. This lack of surprise combined with emerging reports of outrageous, even depraved, abuse Mooji allegedly wields against his students is like a depth charge that has sent seismic shock waves throughout the global satsang community or what has been coined the Neo Advaita satsang movement."
"The allegations against Mooji are so egregious it is not only pulling the rug out from underneath his enlightened master image it is destroying the reputation of Monte Sahaja and his cultish community. Unfortunately, as heartbreaking as this situation is, the reports of former Mooji students sounds all too familiar and reflect a similar excruciatingly painful experience with Gangaji and her husband, who are both students of Papaji. This reveals a pattern of abuse that can no longer be ignored."
"Now two beautiful people are dead and there are credible reports that Mooji is running an abusive cult instead of an ashram that supports liberation, which includes verbal abuse and other bizarre behavior including demonic exorcisms as well as depraved sex abuse of young “hot” women some students described as his concubines. Apparently, Mooji is known to promise these young impressionable women that sex with him will facilitate their liberation and divine union with God."
Here are a couple of excerpts:
"Florentin (Flo) Camoin and Helen Kelby are dead. Flo committed suicide at Mooji’s ashram known as Monte Sahaja—a spiritual community in Portugal steeped in the teaching of his master HWL Poonja better known as Papaji. Helen reportedly killed herself in India during a Mooji retreat. Indescribable heartbreak is the word that best describes the earth-shattering feeling of loved ones left behind when someone they love takes their own life—suicide is brutally painful and often an earth-shattering shock. But many current and former students of Mooji were not at all shocked or surprised by this news. This lack of surprise combined with emerging reports of outrageous, even depraved, abuse Mooji allegedly wields against his students is like a depth charge that has sent seismic shock waves throughout the global satsang community or what has been coined the Neo Advaita satsang movement."
"The allegations against Mooji are so egregious it is not only pulling the rug out from underneath his enlightened master image it is destroying the reputation of Monte Sahaja and his cultish community. Unfortunately, as heartbreaking as this situation is, the reports of former Mooji students sounds all too familiar and reflect a similar excruciatingly painful experience with Gangaji and her husband, who are both students of Papaji. This reveals a pattern of abuse that can no longer be ignored."
"Now two beautiful people are dead and there are credible reports that Mooji is running an abusive cult instead of an ashram that supports liberation, which includes verbal abuse and other bizarre behavior including demonic exorcisms as well as depraved sex abuse of young “hot” women some students described as his concubines. Apparently, Mooji is known to promise these young impressionable women that sex with him will facilitate their liberation and divine union with God."
↧
Re: Mooji a cult?
Thank you so much clearvision, that is a long but worthwile read!
I can't resist quoting some of it further:
"A student of Mooji’s expressed shock when he discovered Mooji was having sex with very young female students at Monte Sahaja ashram as well as during retreats in India. In response to this concern, Mooji whispered, "Hush, this is fine, this is fine, guru may share love with many.”
This is not love. Teachers who pursue students for sexual pleasure and discount any concerns with the false promises or the blatantly outrageous lie that it will somehow facilitate the woman’s spiritual evolution are sexual predators not masters or gurus. This is simply gross psychological manipulation. If it is “fine” then what is the reason for “hushing” or silencing students concerns about what he is actually doing or is the real reason a simple tactic to avoid any responsibility? What is the real purpose for threatening former students with lawsuits when there is mounting evidence to the contrary of his very public denial? All of this is a clue that he is has an enormous ego well hidden behind his guru facade. He is obviously well aware sex with students is not appropriate behavior or he simply wouldn’t “hush” anyone’s concern.
This is a travesty of huge proportions and there is no real accountability for this treachery due to the predominant western arrogance and deep-seated belief that instant effortless enlightenment is real—the great season of the lie propagated by the Neo Advaita satsang movement that has lulled so many into a delusional belief they are enlightened masters or the pervasive delusion that you can instantly jump off the ancient karmic wheel of samsara in less than a finger snap. This belief is arrogantly defended in snobby neo satsang circles, even wikipedia, and endlessly discussed as radical rogue neo enlightenment that works. This strokes the collective ego with its esoteric garbage presented as the absolute truth and sets the stage for continued abuse with no accountability. "
I can't resist quoting some of it further:
"A student of Mooji’s expressed shock when he discovered Mooji was having sex with very young female students at Monte Sahaja ashram as well as during retreats in India. In response to this concern, Mooji whispered, "Hush, this is fine, this is fine, guru may share love with many.”
This is not love. Teachers who pursue students for sexual pleasure and discount any concerns with the false promises or the blatantly outrageous lie that it will somehow facilitate the woman’s spiritual evolution are sexual predators not masters or gurus. This is simply gross psychological manipulation. If it is “fine” then what is the reason for “hushing” or silencing students concerns about what he is actually doing or is the real reason a simple tactic to avoid any responsibility? What is the real purpose for threatening former students with lawsuits when there is mounting evidence to the contrary of his very public denial? All of this is a clue that he is has an enormous ego well hidden behind his guru facade. He is obviously well aware sex with students is not appropriate behavior or he simply wouldn’t “hush” anyone’s concern.
This is a travesty of huge proportions and there is no real accountability for this treachery due to the predominant western arrogance and deep-seated belief that instant effortless enlightenment is real—the great season of the lie propagated by the Neo Advaita satsang movement that has lulled so many into a delusional belief they are enlightened masters or the pervasive delusion that you can instantly jump off the ancient karmic wheel of samsara in less than a finger snap. This belief is arrogantly defended in snobby neo satsang circles, even wikipedia, and endlessly discussed as radical rogue neo enlightenment that works. This strokes the collective ego with its esoteric garbage presented as the absolute truth and sets the stage for continued abuse with no accountability. "
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The mantras work when you
> are in a lively kirtan in the same fashion that a
> rock concert makes one feel free and happy.
> Chanting on beads alone was always stressful as
> you were asked to chant 16 rounds and spent
> majority of the morning trying to bang through the
> rounds so you can get on with your life.
Different aspects connected.
> People adhere, don't question and blindly
> follow out of a place of fear.
This is a symptom of a sect. Another example is that when you ask an inquisitive question, there is an attempt to intimidate. Faced with facts, there is denial.Or opposite. Symptoms of a sect.
> And the fear runs
> very deep. Devotees will reject their family,
> friends, society and a host of illogical fears
> take hold.
Symptom of a sect.
> Nowadays, the devotees of Butler are quick to sue,
> file lawsuits and libel suits.
Then we have to put a question - and what about diver boat killer?
There cannot be spiritual life with notorious violation of universal moral principles - yama.
> I have spoken personally to ex-followers who have
> told me they have MUCH MUCH more information about
> financial schemes, odd behavior etc.
Yes, there are more informations. There is always a necessity to verify. Anyway, one has to ask himself a question - why did i come to a certain sanga? To socialize in a cult? To get knowledge? I decided to look for spiritual realisation - before.
> Why does
> Butler know so much about homosexual sex
> practices. I recall as a young boy hearing
> lectures wherein butler graphically described many
> fringe sex acts. Why were we allowed and made to
> listen to this and write essays on these topics?
"Tamas" concentration.
> Why were we groomed to have such fear and hatred
> towards other Krishna groups, religions, women,
> family etc??? Was this a well rounded education of
> any sort? What spiritual benefit came from such
> things?
Srila Bhaktivinoda gave warnings.
> When all is said and done, if a person is happy in
> this cult, by all means continue. But I truly
> question ones sanity and sense of well being and
> self when this is all passed off as "acceptable"
> and "justified" by virtue of it's relation to the
> blue god Krishna. If this is what passes as
> "spiritual life" we are living in truly backwards
> times indeed.
We are unique and if we are sincere - we still search for the ultimate truth. It is positive.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The mantras work when you
> are in a lively kirtan in the same fashion that a
> rock concert makes one feel free and happy.
> Chanting on beads alone was always stressful as
> you were asked to chant 16 rounds and spent
> majority of the morning trying to bang through the
> rounds so you can get on with your life.
Different aspects connected.
> People adhere, don't question and blindly
> follow out of a place of fear.
This is a symptom of a sect. Another example is that when you ask an inquisitive question, there is an attempt to intimidate. Faced with facts, there is denial.Or opposite. Symptoms of a sect.
> And the fear runs
> very deep. Devotees will reject their family,
> friends, society and a host of illogical fears
> take hold.
Symptom of a sect.
> Nowadays, the devotees of Butler are quick to sue,
> file lawsuits and libel suits.
Then we have to put a question - and what about diver boat killer?
There cannot be spiritual life with notorious violation of universal moral principles - yama.
> I have spoken personally to ex-followers who have
> told me they have MUCH MUCH more information about
> financial schemes, odd behavior etc.
Yes, there are more informations. There is always a necessity to verify. Anyway, one has to ask himself a question - why did i come to a certain sanga? To socialize in a cult? To get knowledge? I decided to look for spiritual realisation - before.
> Why does
> Butler know so much about homosexual sex
> practices. I recall as a young boy hearing
> lectures wherein butler graphically described many
> fringe sex acts. Why were we allowed and made to
> listen to this and write essays on these topics?
"Tamas" concentration.
> Why were we groomed to have such fear and hatred
> towards other Krishna groups, religions, women,
> family etc??? Was this a well rounded education of
> any sort? What spiritual benefit came from such
> things?
Srila Bhaktivinoda gave warnings.
> When all is said and done, if a person is happy in
> this cult, by all means continue. But I truly
> question ones sanity and sense of well being and
> self when this is all passed off as "acceptable"
> and "justified" by virtue of it's relation to the
> blue god Krishna. If this is what passes as
> "spiritual life" we are living in truly backwards
> times indeed.
We are unique and if we are sincere - we still search for the ultimate truth. It is positive.
↧
↧
Lisa turner(psycademy extorting money and brainwash a friend ! updated contents! help!
Wonder if anyone knows this woman? There are a few reasons that concerns me a lot .. i know someone who joined her training in her academy and has been lately more distress and saying the same things she says.. things like boundaries and compromise don't seem to go together for Lisa and there is more than seems off . Would love to give some credit to this lady but i found it hard to trust someone with past issues that claims she has guides speaking for her she does a funny voice .. does she owns what she says or she prefers to have a guide instead?..she also uses a strange wording such if people are upset with her she forgives them..and perception is projection .. which leads me to think she might not take responsibility and if someone comes forward to take legal action against her she never said or did certain things it is all people's perception ..
[www.psycademy.co.uk]
[www.timeshighereducation.com]
[www.psycademy.co.uk]
Lisa turner on Denial
[www.youtube.com]
[www.facebook.com]
Someone who shared their opinion about lisa! tried could not attached the screen shots .. too large.
"Having attended a couple of online sessions with psycademy , I attended a half day free workshop.. as I felt the information contents offered at the half day workshop for a 3 day workshop.. sounded quite in depth..
They were very accommodating with financial arrangements as I wasn’t able to raise funds for workshop..
I felt parts of the workshop very useful however felt.. the in depth of a lot of activities were to be completed on a follow up course.. which was quite a substantial amount..
I also felt., during the workshop of where the team used tactics of selling.. to be quite manipulating for many who take this journey when reaching to their senses of vulnerability..
The teams’ having gained information on individuals financial situations.. through payments being made upfront or enquires on other methods.. I felt., some or one in particular had his weaknesses used in order to get the sale..
as a spiritual listing group.. I feel a sense of hypocrisy whilst also taking into accounts of how the corporations programmed mind is working on desires that benefit self and not as a mass..
yes.’ I hear them saying.. we train you for thousands and then you do the same to get rich from their teachings..
i believe it is fair to say this seems like a pyramid thing and there are no benefits you pay very high and need to stay there training others to recover your money
"I paid £500 for the 3days then was £25 -£35k.."if that was the amount to pay then i would say this is a very clever method to make money fast and easy .. they don't seem to be healing no one but just extorting money and doing mind control! And if you are reproved who knows what will happen ..
[www.psycademy.co.uk]
[www.timeshighereducation.com]
[www.psycademy.co.uk]
Lisa turner on Denial
[www.youtube.com]
[www.facebook.com]
Someone who shared their opinion about lisa! tried could not attached the screen shots .. too large.
"Having attended a couple of online sessions with psycademy , I attended a half day free workshop.. as I felt the information contents offered at the half day workshop for a 3 day workshop.. sounded quite in depth..
They were very accommodating with financial arrangements as I wasn’t able to raise funds for workshop..
I felt parts of the workshop very useful however felt.. the in depth of a lot of activities were to be completed on a follow up course.. which was quite a substantial amount..
I also felt., during the workshop of where the team used tactics of selling.. to be quite manipulating for many who take this journey when reaching to their senses of vulnerability..
The teams’ having gained information on individuals financial situations.. through payments being made upfront or enquires on other methods.. I felt., some or one in particular had his weaknesses used in order to get the sale..
as a spiritual listing group.. I feel a sense of hypocrisy whilst also taking into accounts of how the corporations programmed mind is working on desires that benefit self and not as a mass..
yes.’ I hear them saying.. we train you for thousands and then you do the same to get rich from their teachings..
i believe it is fair to say this seems like a pyramid thing and there are no benefits you pay very high and need to stay there training others to recover your money
"I paid £500 for the 3days then was £25 -£35k.."if that was the amount to pay then i would say this is a very clever method to make money fast and easy .. they don't seem to be healing no one but just extorting money and doing mind control! And if you are reproved who knows what will happen ..
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Quote
DaWatcher
This is a symptom of a sect. Another example is that when you ask an inquisitive question, there is an attempt to intimidate. Faced with facts, there is denial.Or opposite. Symptoms of a sect.
Of course it should be properly corrected when there is rejection, denial, intimidation etc.
↧
Re: Mooji a cult?
Geez, this person called 'Kosi' really has it in for both Mooji and Gangaji! A very, very interesting read!
[www.kosi.org]
Not a lot of new information, I must say, except for the fact that Kosi attempted to counsel one of Moo's ex-students who sadly literally did lose her 'mind' at Moo's compound.
Moo and his team did nothing to try to facilitate this student's recovery, except to send her home- where she would cease to be a problem to them. Let's hope she had medical insurance and received the care she needed.
It's further evidence that Moo's so-called 'teachings' can cause psychological dissociation, and potentially psychosis - which can lead to suicide.
The article is well-written and I guess we can assume that Moo's team will not bother with legal action against 'Kosi', since there is now so many on-line complaints against Moo that it would be a logistics nightmare to try and pursue legal action against them all! But who knows?
I had some difficulty in finding out Kosi's real name - perhaps someone reading this knows? I will say that unfortunately her 'Satsung' or whatever it is, does look suspiciously like hypnotic trance, but where is the surprise there?
Take a look is you want to feel really relaxed and spaced-out for the day: (watch with caution)
[youtube.com]
[www.kosi.org]
Not a lot of new information, I must say, except for the fact that Kosi attempted to counsel one of Moo's ex-students who sadly literally did lose her 'mind' at Moo's compound.
Moo and his team did nothing to try to facilitate this student's recovery, except to send her home- where she would cease to be a problem to them. Let's hope she had medical insurance and received the care she needed.
It's further evidence that Moo's so-called 'teachings' can cause psychological dissociation, and potentially psychosis - which can lead to suicide.
The article is well-written and I guess we can assume that Moo's team will not bother with legal action against 'Kosi', since there is now so many on-line complaints against Moo that it would be a logistics nightmare to try and pursue legal action against them all! But who knows?
I had some difficulty in finding out Kosi's real name - perhaps someone reading this knows? I will say that unfortunately her 'Satsung' or whatever it is, does look suspiciously like hypnotic trance, but where is the surprise there?
Take a look is you want to feel really relaxed and spaced-out for the day: (watch with caution)
[youtube.com]
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Jai Srila Prabhupada!!!!
[abcnews.go.com]
May Lord Narashingha protect us from the evil Hillary Clinton.
In true Butler fashion, Tulsi decides to sue cause her lord didn't show up for the occasion... Krishna saves his energy to battle the real big demons. Hillary did not make the cut I guess.
[abcnews.go.com]
May Lord Narashingha protect us from the evil Hillary Clinton.
In true Butler fashion, Tulsi decides to sue cause her lord didn't show up for the occasion... Krishna saves his energy to battle the real big demons. Hillary did not make the cut I guess.
↧
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jai Srila Prabhupada!!!!
>
> [abcnews.go.com]
>
> May Lord Narashingha protect us from the evil
> Hillary Clinton.
>
> In true Butler fashion, Tulsi decides to sue cause
> her lord didn't show up for the occasion...
> Krishna saves his energy to battle the real big
> demons. Hillary did not make the cut I guess.
Nothing surprising when it comes to the expected method of operation.Samoa origin by father! Mother? However, one must admire how much Tulsi has the strength to speak. Non-stop talk.
I don't know how much Lord Krishna has to do with this. I also don't know how much Chris Butler has to do with it - maybe they got divorced in their visions and projects. I am still wondering about the huge karma and "gather the gang after big bang".
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jai Srila Prabhupada!!!!
>
> [abcnews.go.com]
>
> May Lord Narashingha protect us from the evil
> Hillary Clinton.
>
> In true Butler fashion, Tulsi decides to sue cause
> her lord didn't show up for the occasion...
> Krishna saves his energy to battle the real big
> demons. Hillary did not make the cut I guess.
Nothing surprising when it comes to the expected method of operation.Samoa origin by father! Mother? However, one must admire how much Tulsi has the strength to speak. Non-stop talk.
I don't know how much Lord Krishna has to do with this. I also don't know how much Chris Butler has to do with it - maybe they got divorced in their visions and projects. I am still wondering about the huge karma and "gather the gang after big bang".
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Divorced? From who? From What? What does Samoa have to do with anything?
I am especially fond of Krishnas words in the Gita about suing your enemy for $50K. And the verses in chapter 7 smashing homosexuals and muslims. Now I know where the inspiration came from. Anything can be justified when it is done "for Krishna" under the guidance of an expert spiritual master.
Apparently, according to scripture, Krishna has everything to do with it. And if you don't understand it, just know it's all a part of his eternal "play".
If you think for one second that Butler is not banking on the $50K suing that is going on in the Tulsi campaign, you my dear friend, do not know Butler or anything about how SIF operates. Tulsi does not speak or move without Butler pulling the strings. You think 5000+ SIF followers are feverishly supporting Tulsi because there is a lack of options in terms of political candidates? Butler has been telling his followers who to vote for since the 70s. We were all told to vote for Rick Reed, Nashiki, and Mike Gabbard et al for years by Butler.
Tulsi has videos and recent news articles where she still gives allegiance to Butler. As recent as last year. Her staff members are all Butler devotees, followers and disciples. She has been shown in videos at Kirtans in Hawaii offering flowers to huge pictures of Butler on the alter just a few months ago. Divorced? Are you serious? She has Butler on speed dial.
All this suing and complaining that the elections are rigged, not attending debates and flip flopping on her stances over the course of a very short period of time is all Butler driving his political power trip through a brainwashed devotee. He literally has fell hook line and sinker for his post as Jagad Guru. If it was not that he is allergic to the air around his face he would be running for President himself.
I am especially fond of Krishnas words in the Gita about suing your enemy for $50K. And the verses in chapter 7 smashing homosexuals and muslims. Now I know where the inspiration came from. Anything can be justified when it is done "for Krishna" under the guidance of an expert spiritual master.
Apparently, according to scripture, Krishna has everything to do with it. And if you don't understand it, just know it's all a part of his eternal "play".
If you think for one second that Butler is not banking on the $50K suing that is going on in the Tulsi campaign, you my dear friend, do not know Butler or anything about how SIF operates. Tulsi does not speak or move without Butler pulling the strings. You think 5000+ SIF followers are feverishly supporting Tulsi because there is a lack of options in terms of political candidates? Butler has been telling his followers who to vote for since the 70s. We were all told to vote for Rick Reed, Nashiki, and Mike Gabbard et al for years by Butler.
Tulsi has videos and recent news articles where she still gives allegiance to Butler. As recent as last year. Her staff members are all Butler devotees, followers and disciples. She has been shown in videos at Kirtans in Hawaii offering flowers to huge pictures of Butler on the alter just a few months ago. Divorced? Are you serious? She has Butler on speed dial.
All this suing and complaining that the elections are rigged, not attending debates and flip flopping on her stances over the course of a very short period of time is all Butler driving his political power trip through a brainwashed devotee. He literally has fell hook line and sinker for his post as Jagad Guru. If it was not that he is allergic to the air around his face he would be running for President himself.
↧
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Divorced? From who? From What? What does Samoa
> have to do with anything?
To check everything and everyone. Too important.
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am especially fond of Krishnas words in the Gita
> about suing your enemy for $50K. And the verses in
> chapter 7 smashing homosexuals and muslims. Now I
> know where the inspiration came from. Anything can
> be justified when it is done "for Krishna" under
> the guidance of an expert spiritual master.
Can't remind such "gita" actually...Hm...
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently, according to scripture, Krishna has
> everything to do with it. And if you don't
> understand it, just know it's all a part of his
> eternal "play".
From a philosophical point of view, nothing happens without God's will. There is a field of action. There are forces like tracks along which the action's actions slide. A big discussion about free will.
The subject is too important to easily blame Lord Krishna for the actions of those who present themselves as followers of Lord Krishna, especially since their understanding of the Gita differs from Her or is shallow.
Shallow solutions to the Whole World?
> If you think for one second that Butler is not
> banking on the $50K suing that is going on in the
> Tulsi campaign, you my dear friend, do not know
> Butler or anything about how SIF operates. Tulsi
> does not speak or move without Butler pulling the
> strings. You think 5000+ SIF followers are
> feverishly supporting Tulsi because there is a
> lack of options in terms of political candidates?
> Butler has been telling his followers who to vote
> for since the 70s. We were all told to vote for
> Rick Reed, Nashiki, and Mike Gabbard et al for
> years by Butler.
I am here because of controversy. However, I rely on observation, analysis and evidence. More facts, more evidence, more relations, confirmed coincidence.
To be careful.
> Tulsi has videos and recent news articles where
> she still gives allegiance to Butler. As recent as
> last year. Her staff members are all Butler
> devotees, followers and disciples. She has been
> shown in videos at Kirtans in Hawaii offering
> flowers to huge pictures of Butler on the alter
> just a few months ago. Divorced? Are you serious?
> She has Butler on speed dial.
I saw some of this videos. True. Then some "cleaning" happened. On wiki i.e. There are some accepting it. I am not surprised.
> All this suing and complaining that the elections
> are rigged, not attending debates and flip
> flopping on her stances over the course of a very
> short period of time is all Butler driving his
> political power trip through a brainwashed
> devotee. He literally has fell hook line and
> sinker for his post as Jagad Guru. If it was not
> that he is allergic to the air around his face he
> would be running for President himself.
But there are rules in the World so there is no acting-freely.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Divorced? From who? From What? What does Samoa
> have to do with anything?
To check everything and everyone. Too important.
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am especially fond of Krishnas words in the Gita
> about suing your enemy for $50K. And the verses in
> chapter 7 smashing homosexuals and muslims. Now I
> know where the inspiration came from. Anything can
> be justified when it is done "for Krishna" under
> the guidance of an expert spiritual master.
Can't remind such "gita" actually...Hm...
IanKoviak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparently, according to scripture, Krishna has
> everything to do with it. And if you don't
> understand it, just know it's all a part of his
> eternal "play".
From a philosophical point of view, nothing happens without God's will. There is a field of action. There are forces like tracks along which the action's actions slide. A big discussion about free will.
The subject is too important to easily blame Lord Krishna for the actions of those who present themselves as followers of Lord Krishna, especially since their understanding of the Gita differs from Her or is shallow.
Shallow solutions to the Whole World?
> If you think for one second that Butler is not
> banking on the $50K suing that is going on in the
> Tulsi campaign, you my dear friend, do not know
> Butler or anything about how SIF operates. Tulsi
> does not speak or move without Butler pulling the
> strings. You think 5000+ SIF followers are
> feverishly supporting Tulsi because there is a
> lack of options in terms of political candidates?
> Butler has been telling his followers who to vote
> for since the 70s. We were all told to vote for
> Rick Reed, Nashiki, and Mike Gabbard et al for
> years by Butler.
I am here because of controversy. However, I rely on observation, analysis and evidence. More facts, more evidence, more relations, confirmed coincidence.
To be careful.
> Tulsi has videos and recent news articles where
> she still gives allegiance to Butler. As recent as
> last year. Her staff members are all Butler
> devotees, followers and disciples. She has been
> shown in videos at Kirtans in Hawaii offering
> flowers to huge pictures of Butler on the alter
> just a few months ago. Divorced? Are you serious?
> She has Butler on speed dial.
I saw some of this videos. True. Then some "cleaning" happened. On wiki i.e. There are some accepting it. I am not surprised.
> All this suing and complaining that the elections
> are rigged, not attending debates and flip
> flopping on her stances over the course of a very
> short period of time is all Butler driving his
> political power trip through a brainwashed
> devotee. He literally has fell hook line and
> sinker for his post as Jagad Guru. If it was not
> that he is allergic to the air around his face he
> would be running for President himself.
But there are rules in the World so there is no acting-freely.
↧
Re: Lisa turner(psycademy extorting money and brainwash a friend ! updated contents! help!
My view her covers all of these type of groups, it’s not a personal thing because it is the same model that they all run on. It’s a business.
If this person truly wanted to help in such grand terms as they describe, it wouldn’t cost this much money and most certainly would not be a business.
On a brief reading of the home page, straight away it begins with manipulative text that is formed to plug into naturally occurring human phases with a need that most of us go through at some point in life, in this case surrounding purpose in the world, that a reader may currently be experiencing or had been through and left unresolved. This will potentially hook a person in, or not.
All of these people are chancers. They take a chance, like fishermen.
They are running a business, and nothing more. Godspeed to you :-).
If this person truly wanted to help in such grand terms as they describe, it wouldn’t cost this much money and most certainly would not be a business.
On a brief reading of the home page, straight away it begins with manipulative text that is formed to plug into naturally occurring human phases with a need that most of us go through at some point in life, in this case surrounding purpose in the world, that a reader may currently be experiencing or had been through and left unresolved. This will potentially hook a person in, or not.
All of these people are chancers. They take a chance, like fishermen.
They are running a business, and nothing more. Godspeed to you :-).
↧
↧
Re: Psycademy NLP cult?
NLP is a business tool, manipulation of sales, so in a sense it is a form of mind control.
PR is also a manipulation tool.
Why would any person need to manipulate? Because they are not free themselves. This means that what they are selling, which comes across as various forms of freedom from suffering, is bogus entirely.
Ps It’s great to ask around, though remember to make your own conclusions. Everyone has a different perspective. Essentially, yours is the one you want to follow, not someone else’s. You can trust in yourself.
PR is also a manipulation tool.
Why would any person need to manipulate? Because they are not free themselves. This means that what they are selling, which comes across as various forms of freedom from suffering, is bogus entirely.
Ps It’s great to ask around, though remember to make your own conclusions. Everyone has a different perspective. Essentially, yours is the one you want to follow, not someone else’s. You can trust in yourself.
↧
Re: Spacnation
The gospel according to Tobi
[www.private-eye.co.uk]
Cult News, Issue 1514
tobi.jpg
HIGH ROLLER: SPAC Nation’s Rolex-wearing chief ‘pastor’ Tobi Adegboyega, who has political friends in high places
THESE are trying times for the Salvation Proclaimers Anointed Church, better known as SPAC Nation, which is under investigation by both the Charity Commission and the Serious Fraud Office.
Scotland Yard is studying allegations of “potential fraud” as well as sexual abuse following a BBC Panorama film last month. Two weeks ago the House of Commons heard damning allegations from Labour MP Steve Reed about the “cult”, as he described it.
Some places, however, are still happy to welcome SPAC Nation – and its money. The Eye learns that chief “pastor” Tobi Adegboyega and more than 100 guests hired the magnificent Nash-designed HQ of the Institute of Directors in Pall Mall for a black-tie New Year’s Eve Gala three weeks ago, at staggering expense. The salvation proclaimers enjoyed coloured cocktails, canapés, computer games and late-night partying amid the marbled halls and Ionic columns, when not posing for selfies on the grand staircase under a 15-foot chandelier donated by George IV to commemorate the Battle of Waterloo.
Glitz and wealth
So proud are they of the event, titled “Class”, that church leaders are now using pictures taken at the IoD as their Twitter photos, in keeping with the SPAC tradition of attracting young congregants with extravagant displays of glitz and wealth. Tobi Adegboyega, who lives in a £2.5m mansion in the Surrey stockbroker belt, arrives for church services in a £150,000 Rolls-Royce.
As we reported last November (Eye 1510), he has political friends in high places – notably former Croydon MP Gavin Barwell, who as Theresa May’s chief of staff invited Pastor Tobi to 10 Downing Street in May 2018. At last year’s Tory conference Adegboyega was given a seat in the row behind prime minister Boris Johnson. Soon afterwards Croydon Conservatives selected a 20-year-old SPAC pastor as their candidate in a council by-election.
But the love affair with the Tories may be cooling. Church members have instead started tweeting enthusiastically about ex-MP Rory Stewart, who is running for London mayor as an independent. “Incredibly insightful!” raved one self-styled “mobiliser” from SPAC Nation after meeting him last week. “His authenticity and compassion for this City is exactly what we need. #RoryForLondon.”
‘Prosperity Gospel’
Is an association with SPAC Nation really what Stewart needs? Steve Reed MP, who has passed a dossier of more than a dozen cases to Inspector Knacker, told the House of Commons on 8 January that “the leaders of this organisation appear to be perpetrating fraud in order to enrich themselves”. He had spoken to members who were “coached to commit benefit fraud” to raise money for the church, and to others “who were coerced into handing over their entire student loans”. Some followers, he said, had been pressurised into setting up fake businesses to obtain fraudulent loans which they gave to church leaders.
Alleging that “there is often also sexual exploitation” of young black girls in the church, he detected “worrying echoes of the Rotherham child abuse scandal… as one desperate mum told me: if this was happening to white middle-class children, would it have been ignored for so many years?” He concluded: “In my opinion, SPAC Nation is a criminal enterprise masquerading as a Church.”
Undaunted, the Rolex-wearing Pastor Tobi continues to preach his “Prosperity Gospel”. No nonsense about camels and the eye of a needle for him. “God,” he explains, “is a trader.” No wonder the Institute of Directors were impressed!
↧
Looking to find out any info on World Outreach Ministries/Roger Houtsma/Novato, CA
I was born into what I would call an evangelical cult based out of Novato, California 24 sum years ago. I believe it began in the 80's under the leadership of Roger Houtsma who eventually passed the role of leader onto his son, David Houtsma, and whose other son, Nathan Houtsma, was also involved. It was briefly mentioned in a 1994 book called "Churches that Abuse" but was relatively untouched outside of that.
In the early 2000's there was a split and many families from this cult (including my own) moved to Atlanta, GA, with the intent of starting a new branch on the East Coast. It was originally called Northside Family Worship Center. I believe they did not account for the difference in environment between California (a comfortable ecosystem for spiritual extremists) versus Georgia with its infamous bible belt culture, and after years of failed attempts to get a movement going, they adapted and became much more traditional/conservative in an effort to compete with the mega-churches of the area, undergoing the name change to Eastgate Church and all-but fizzling out entirely.
It's been probably 7 years now since I stepped foot inside their church but the impact that the original California cult had on me is something I still struggle with. In the least dramatic way possible, it ruined my life before it even started and I am still trying to put the pieces together. This isn't easy when you're dealing with such a lack of information, however. My parents have moved on to yet another cult (albeit much more mainstream in the form of Bethel Church in Redding, CA) and refuse to acknowledge the "church" they raised us in as what it was: a cult.
I will be posting another topic under the "former cult members + families" forum on the subject of how people recover from this kind of stuff and how you deal with the resulting isolation, but for this topic, I am looking for anyone who might have any information whatsoever on this cult. It is not a super well-known one and the only people I've been able to talk to about it at all have been my siblings and a couple young women who were also raised in it, but we have the disadvantage of having been children and, therefore, excluded from a lot of things that might give us some insight, as well as the fact that memory is not the most reliable source of information.
So if anyone has any knowledge on World Outreach Ministries/ Christian Life Church in Novato, CA/Northside Family Worship Center in North Atlanta/Roger Houtsma/David Houtsma/Nathan Houtsma/Robin Houtsma/Greg Mervich/Edison Fowler/anyone else you know of being involved, I would appreciate any information I can get as I try to get a clearer view of what I was raised in so that me and other victims can move on with our lives.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my story.
In the early 2000's there was a split and many families from this cult (including my own) moved to Atlanta, GA, with the intent of starting a new branch on the East Coast. It was originally called Northside Family Worship Center. I believe they did not account for the difference in environment between California (a comfortable ecosystem for spiritual extremists) versus Georgia with its infamous bible belt culture, and after years of failed attempts to get a movement going, they adapted and became much more traditional/conservative in an effort to compete with the mega-churches of the area, undergoing the name change to Eastgate Church and all-but fizzling out entirely.
It's been probably 7 years now since I stepped foot inside their church but the impact that the original California cult had on me is something I still struggle with. In the least dramatic way possible, it ruined my life before it even started and I am still trying to put the pieces together. This isn't easy when you're dealing with such a lack of information, however. My parents have moved on to yet another cult (albeit much more mainstream in the form of Bethel Church in Redding, CA) and refuse to acknowledge the "church" they raised us in as what it was: a cult.
I will be posting another topic under the "former cult members + families" forum on the subject of how people recover from this kind of stuff and how you deal with the resulting isolation, but for this topic, I am looking for anyone who might have any information whatsoever on this cult. It is not a super well-known one and the only people I've been able to talk to about it at all have been my siblings and a couple young women who were also raised in it, but we have the disadvantage of having been children and, therefore, excluded from a lot of things that might give us some insight, as well as the fact that memory is not the most reliable source of information.
So if anyone has any knowledge on World Outreach Ministries/ Christian Life Church in Novato, CA/Northside Family Worship Center in North Atlanta/Roger Houtsma/David Houtsma/Nathan Houtsma/Robin Houtsma/Greg Mervich/Edison Fowler/anyone else you know of being involved, I would appreciate any information I can get as I try to get a clearer view of what I was raised in so that me and other victims can move on with our lives.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my story.
↧
Re: New book by Rick Ross "Cults Inside Out"
[forum.culteducation.com]
[guruphiliac.blogspot.com]
** DEAR Rich Ross, I highly admire you for your daring revealing and exposing this Charletan Tilak Senarth Fernando [www.tilaktaranga.com] (born in Sri Lanka, India on 10/30/1943), Tilak Brennan or many other names he goes by. Currently he does resides in LasVegas. Everything you wrote about him person is true. I know this person from many many years doing all these corruptions, as a CON ARTIST molesting and doing sexual abuse to so many vulnerable young girls, women, even and boys, with his tricks and he tricks them to have has sex with them claiming that he opens the path to enlightenment when they have sex with him! I was the witness of many innocent girls in his house who he had sex with them and they were at his service to do anything he wanted them to do for him at all time! They even believe him and are brainwashed by his tricks and taking advantage of their vulnerabilities. He is a predator going after vulnerable, young, fragile, innocent naive victims who can not do anything even when they realize that! He owns many many properties in Las Vegas, New york, New jersey,... He used to do his Frauds in New york which he was caught by the authorities so he moved to Las Vegas inorder to be able to continue to do his Frauds with his managers BARBARA MILLER, JOANNE E SIMMONS, ETC... who were his FRAUD partners making a lot of fortune from innocent people for a long time and still continuing with all the corruptions. TILAK is a CON ARTIST, miserable old ugly man who limps, he had polio when he was in India and has problem with his breath and he has to plug himself to the Oxygen container every night and to get energy through sex from young innocent women. He call himself as a guru or a spiritual healer. But he is Nothing more than a CHARLETAN (TILAK BRENNAN or TILAK FERNANDO, Tilak Senarth Fernando TILAK and people working with him belong into JAIL, NOT TO MOLEST or take advantage of Naive young innocents! [www.tilaktaranga.com]. ALERT ALERT ALERT! CAUTION. TILAK IS A RED FLAG .
[guruphiliac.blogspot.com]
** DEAR Rich Ross, I highly admire you for your daring revealing and exposing this Charletan Tilak Senarth Fernando [www.tilaktaranga.com] (born in Sri Lanka, India on 10/30/1943), Tilak Brennan or many other names he goes by. Currently he does resides in LasVegas. Everything you wrote about him person is true. I know this person from many many years doing all these corruptions, as a CON ARTIST molesting and doing sexual abuse to so many vulnerable young girls, women, even and boys, with his tricks and he tricks them to have has sex with them claiming that he opens the path to enlightenment when they have sex with him! I was the witness of many innocent girls in his house who he had sex with them and they were at his service to do anything he wanted them to do for him at all time! They even believe him and are brainwashed by his tricks and taking advantage of their vulnerabilities. He is a predator going after vulnerable, young, fragile, innocent naive victims who can not do anything even when they realize that! He owns many many properties in Las Vegas, New york, New jersey,... He used to do his Frauds in New york which he was caught by the authorities so he moved to Las Vegas inorder to be able to continue to do his Frauds with his managers BARBARA MILLER, JOANNE E SIMMONS, ETC... who were his FRAUD partners making a lot of fortune from innocent people for a long time and still continuing with all the corruptions. TILAK is a CON ARTIST, miserable old ugly man who limps, he had polio when he was in India and has problem with his breath and he has to plug himself to the Oxygen container every night and to get energy through sex from young innocent women. He call himself as a guru or a spiritual healer. But he is Nothing more than a CHARLETAN (TILAK BRENNAN or TILAK FERNANDO, Tilak Senarth Fernando TILAK and people working with him belong into JAIL, NOT TO MOLEST or take advantage of Naive young innocents! [www.tilaktaranga.com]. ALERT ALERT ALERT! CAUTION. TILAK IS A RED FLAG .
↧
↧
Re: Psycademy NLP cult?
just some updates .. [www.timeshighereducation.com]
[www.facebook.com]
Facet this also a new age thing teaching what it seems taking no responsibility.. so legal action can not be taken because it is all perception as she teaches ..
When i watch the videos i get to feel those subliminal messages that the vulnerable might take on .. and will never question anything ..
well said the control comes from the ones who don't have freedom.. makes sense as this Woman was a prisioner for 5 years..
[www.facebook.com]
Facet this also a new age thing teaching what it seems taking no responsibility.. so legal action can not be taken because it is all perception as she teaches ..
When i watch the videos i get to feel those subliminal messages that the vulnerable might take on .. and will never question anything ..
well said the control comes from the ones who don't have freedom.. makes sense as this Woman was a prisioner for 5 years..
↧
Re: Spacnation
↧
Re: #Lisa turner (psycademy extorting money and brainwash a friend ! updated contents! help!
Thanks Facet for being following this topic, yes true it is a business and if genuine it won't probably be charging that much .. but she also has a video on charging clients she says to offer amazing services she has to pay thousands it is her justification to charge loads .. i would turn it around as it could actually be because she charges unjustified fees that she can afford to pay thousands on on marketing etc .. to make more and more..to hook more desperate people that sounds like?
#psycademy #lisaTurner
#psycademy #lisaTurner
↧
