The online version of this article does not include some information available in the print version of the same New York Times article. Corboy will include this later.
Corboy note: I did not participate in the discussion of this article. I wrote the item above before I sent on to look at the comments section.
Some comments following the "Spiritual Vagabonds" article in the New York Times.
One person has this to say. The message is just because something is called Sufi does not mean all of its members are sane and benevolent.
And, there have been too many situations where leaders of both Sufi and Sufistic sects have plundered their followers and disrupted relationships.
Corboy note: I did not participate in the discussion of this article. I wrote the item above before I sent on to look at the comments section.
Some comments following the "Spiritual Vagabonds" article in the New York Times.
One person has this to say. The message is just because something is called Sufi does not mean all of its members are sane and benevolent.
And, there have been too many situations where leaders of both Sufi and Sufistic sects have plundered their followers and disrupted relationships.
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MCS New York 1 day ago
I don't know much about the religion, or spiritual practice, however...I do know that 15 years ago my best friend, suddenly and rather surprisingly conflicted by his sexuality turned to Sufi at the urging of a young woman who had a crush on him. Like most conflicted people, religion is an easy pill rather than embrace, face or correct dysfunction of issues. So, he changed, no calls, no more time to hang. no alcohol at all, his once diverse interests in nearly everything fell to nothing. A bright empty look began to appear in his eye, when the subject of Sufism came up. He had, in my mind been undoubtedly brainwashed in some way, willingly yes, he was troubled about something. Our once close friendship, despite my confronting him, gently warning him, trying to help, broke apart. Months passed, and this woman who poisoned him against me quite openly, decides they need spiritual growth on a lake. So in November they paddled out in icy water. The canoe flipped. She survived. He drowned. His family didn't have money. The woman disappeared. I paid for his burial and grave stone despite not having spoken to him in over a year. I was heartbroken before he died, but after, well...pretty rough stuff at 29 years old. That's what I think of when I hear Sufi.
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sparrowhawk Texas 2 days ago
Look at the history of sufism, maybe starting with real scholarship--like Nile Green's History of Sufism. That you can use its methods in the modern period to reach out to God does not erase the fact that it is grounded in Islam and has been since the 7th century. Devotion is non-denominational, but sufism is explicitly Muslim practice.
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Red Ree San Francisco CA 2 days ago
There is at least one Sufi order that is NOT Islamic, although I don't know much more than that. I believe that Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee runs a group called Golden Light Sufi Center tracing from this lineage. The lineage is called Naqshbandiyya-Mujaddidiyya as described on the Golden Light Sufi Center website. The only reason I know of it is a former roommate was a member and told me a bit about it. They emphasize dream interpretation among other things.
I wouldn't want to swear an oath of loyalty and obedience to a person as described in this article.
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Person NY 2 days ago
Wow. Where do I begin? I am not a scholar of Islamic Studies, I am not a Sufi, but I am a practicing Muslim and the number of errors printed in this article is beyond astounding. I do not know who Adela Suliman is, she probably did a lot of her research for this article with random Google searches. It shows. The “Sufis” that you are describing on the Upper West Side are not “Sufis” they are reformed Muslims practicing religious appropriation. A real sufi would not call themselves “beloved” that would be really pompous. Real Sufis call the prophet Muhammad “habib Allah” which mean “God’s beloved”. The word “Zikr” does not exist. That is not a word. What I think you are referring to is “Dhikr”, spiritual practices in remembrance of God that are done to become spiritually closer to God, or as Sufis refer to Him, “The Divine”. All Muslims do dhikr, not just Sufis. Sufis just do more dhikr and more variegated types of dhikr than non-sufi Muslims. “Worshipers frequently lose themselves in a spinning frenzy, as with the well-known whirling dervishes.” Most sufi Muslims don’t do “whirling dervishes”. Thank you for perpetuating an Orientalist stereotype. The most common form of dhikr amongst sufi and non-sufi Muslims is counting prayer beads and repeating such religious phrases as “subhannallah” (which is synonymous to Hallelujah), or astughfurallah, or countless other religious phrases.
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lt midcoat maine 2 days ago
"Ottoman rulers could hardly force anyone "underground" in the 13th. century since they only established a small tribal "beylik" around 1300.
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sparrowhawk Texas 2 days ago
This is completely inaccurate and misleading. Sufism, as devotional Islam, has existed since the early medieval period. There are many different sufi orders who demonstrate devotion to God in any number of ways, including silent repetition of the name of God, whirling, chanting, etc.. In the pre-modern world, most Muslims were members of multiple sufi orders and it remains an important component of Muslim identity andworship today. To suggest that it is somehow NOT mainstream Islam is a fallacy repeated by only the most conservative Muslims and by the ignorant. Furthermore, for non-Muslims to adopt some sufi practices--as if it were another form of transcendental meditation, without context within the religion that entirely informs it--is perfectly fine if it brings them devotional joy, but surely it is a gross error to suggest this somehow is Islamic. It is simply new-age devotionalism. The author of this piece should have done a little reading. May I suggest, for those interested in Sufi history and practice, Julian Baldick's "Mystical Islam: An Introduction to Sufism", or Nile Green's "Sufism, a Global History'"? There is a great deal of good scholarly work out there and no excuse for promulgating ignorance as this article does
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sparrowhawk Texas 2 days ago
Yes, that was true in the later period. I am a medievalist and look at the ways that sufism was a powerful legitimizing factor in state building until the 17th century--and even then the collapse of power was only partial (specifically Ottoman and of course Safavid/Qajar--but not at all in other parts of the Islamic world: Mughal India, Indonesia, Norht Africa, etc.). Sufi power revived in the modern period in some areas--look at the Naqshbandis in 1980's Turkey or Central Asia. It's a mistake to insist on a dichotomy of sufi vs ulema, especially since so many member of the ulema were sufis in much of the Muslim world, past and present. Sorry to keep on it--it's a pleasure to have an opportunity to discuss such an interesting topic
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sparrowhawk Texas 2 days ago
Sorry but that's only true for the modern period and only in some parts of the Islamic world. Throughout Islamis history, sufism was devotional practice, and most Muslims belonged to sufi orders. It was sponsored by the state in many case: the Ottoman royal court supported the Mevlevi, the janissaries the Bektashi, in Mughal India the Chishti, etc.. In the medieval and early modern period most of the ulema belonged to and even founded sufi orders. Nile Green's new book is a good one for this. IN any case, sufism doesn't support the worship of anything BUT God--it simply makes the effort to connect deeply with God. That's why it can be useful for non-Muslims in NY, by offering techniques and tools to reach that desirable state of annihilation within God's love.