Sad to hear that his censorship is so effective. I copied some comments yesterday, obviously just before "questioning Mooji" was taken down. A person Toby commented to the posting about worship and kissing feet and I found it interesting, because he has seen behind the curtains of Osho and is comparing it to M and Monte Sahaja.
It is 4 quotes of Toby, other comments were in between, which are missing:
First one:
I too have to reserve judgement, however, having seen a lot behind the curtain from my years with Osho, and having as good friends some of the people closest to him already in his Bombay years, I know many things about that story that no one having only met him, or for that matter his dedicated disciples for years but outside the real inner circle, could not begin to guess.
I see disturbing parallels between Mooji's Mt. Sahaja and the Rajneesh ashrams. And I see the same patterns of attempted exposure of questionable thing and the strong suppression and pushback on the part of the "faithful". I reserve judgement but I am keeping my eyes fully open.
Second one:
Spiritualism has been commercialized to a degree that most students do not want to see. As Rajneesh once told his secretary, selling enlightenment is the best thing of all, because it is intangible and no one knows what it is. Actually, I have no reason to doubt that many teachers of the past, some of whom are held in high esteem, were doing the same thing.
This is not to say that there is no Truth or that there is no validity in teaching, but many (if not actually all) are here to help and to be helped in turn. But the teachings are not something that you can assay for quality, and the venture is based on faith. The whole scenario is ripe for abuse, intentional or unintentional.
Third quote:
Sumantra Paul -- It depends on what you consider credible. I have been in contact with Amma Tanya White, and my gut says she is sincere. I know how this happened with Rajneesh--firsthand accounts--and I know how difficult it is to come out with what happened against a tide of "rabid" followers who need to deny at all costs that the Master isn't perfect.
Many times the women were dazzled by being chosen, and afterwards came out feeling that they had been violated, but unclear about how things had happened. As with many victims, they were ashamed and felt it was their fault somehow. Between that and the social pressure against accusing the Master, they chose to remain silent, and many suffer to this day from what happened to them.
This is a tough question: just look at Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby and you will see how the deck is stacked against women. Of course I do not have definitive evidence about Mooji, but I feel that an atmosphere where the possibility exists must be maintained without prejudgement. However this is upsetting to those who cannot tolerate ambiguity, and unfortunately those who worship someone as perfect are not so good at holding conflicting views within themselves, in my experience.
4.quote:
Sumantra Paul --no need to feel sorry for me. You clearly do not get what I was saying. The differences you point out between then and now are trivial. Except for the Oregon time, for instance, Rajneesh's ashram was also open to all, and apart from a core group of "ashramites", most people lived their lives in the world and visited when they could. No one was kept prisoner or bound in any way, and even those who lived in Poona for years had plenty of contact with those outside.
I was near the inner circle, and have many friends who were as close as one could be to him for many years, and who became disaffected and left, sadder but wiser, as they say. I myself saw clearly the dark aspects of what was going on, and was involved in them for some time. And yet only a handful of his disciples really saw behind the curtain. Even now, 35 years later, they give the same gushing reports that you cite with students of Mooji--how they were enormously benefited by his teaching and presence, how he was a source of pure light and love for them. They steadfastly refuse to believe that he also had feet of clay.
Why does this matter? Because it is the antithesis of the awareness that they seek. Because it creates a lacuna that must be addressed before they can move forward. You are right that this is not my business. Everyone must experience their own path, and find their own way. I am simply trying to shed some light from my perspective. As Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Bhakti is not freedom, and will never bring freedom. All I am hoping is to open some eyes. Most, like you, will not listen. What Mooji offers is like a drug. It is feel-good disguised as something it is not. This is not all Mooji's fault. He is gaining power and influence by giving people what they want. He is complicitous, but not, I think, a bad person-just a person like all of us walking here on earth. He is taking the feel-good route, just as are his students.
With Rajneesh, there was a dark side, carefully hidden from public view. There were the freakouts, the PTSD, some suicides. We are beginning to hear about that now coming out from Mooji's operation. Most disciples will downplay it--saying that these were people who were on the edge to begin with, who could not be helped in any case. There are a number of credible reports of women who came out feeling sexually used by Mooji. These are things, unpleasant as they are, that need to be looked at clearly. Of course those who get their rush from his satsangs are not going to want to give up the dream. You know that feeling of waking up from a particularly pleasant dream, and finding yourself in the dreary old world, warm under the blankets and not really wanting to get up in the cold and face the day. Eventually you will have to wake up from that dream. Why not now?
It is 4 quotes of Toby, other comments were in between, which are missing:
First one:
I too have to reserve judgement, however, having seen a lot behind the curtain from my years with Osho, and having as good friends some of the people closest to him already in his Bombay years, I know many things about that story that no one having only met him, or for that matter his dedicated disciples for years but outside the real inner circle, could not begin to guess.
I see disturbing parallels between Mooji's Mt. Sahaja and the Rajneesh ashrams. And I see the same patterns of attempted exposure of questionable thing and the strong suppression and pushback on the part of the "faithful". I reserve judgement but I am keeping my eyes fully open.
Second one:
Spiritualism has been commercialized to a degree that most students do not want to see. As Rajneesh once told his secretary, selling enlightenment is the best thing of all, because it is intangible and no one knows what it is. Actually, I have no reason to doubt that many teachers of the past, some of whom are held in high esteem, were doing the same thing.
This is not to say that there is no Truth or that there is no validity in teaching, but many (if not actually all) are here to help and to be helped in turn. But the teachings are not something that you can assay for quality, and the venture is based on faith. The whole scenario is ripe for abuse, intentional or unintentional.
Third quote:
Sumantra Paul -- It depends on what you consider credible. I have been in contact with Amma Tanya White, and my gut says she is sincere. I know how this happened with Rajneesh--firsthand accounts--and I know how difficult it is to come out with what happened against a tide of "rabid" followers who need to deny at all costs that the Master isn't perfect.
Many times the women were dazzled by being chosen, and afterwards came out feeling that they had been violated, but unclear about how things had happened. As with many victims, they were ashamed and felt it was their fault somehow. Between that and the social pressure against accusing the Master, they chose to remain silent, and many suffer to this day from what happened to them.
This is a tough question: just look at Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby and you will see how the deck is stacked against women. Of course I do not have definitive evidence about Mooji, but I feel that an atmosphere where the possibility exists must be maintained without prejudgement. However this is upsetting to those who cannot tolerate ambiguity, and unfortunately those who worship someone as perfect are not so good at holding conflicting views within themselves, in my experience.
4.quote:
Sumantra Paul --no need to feel sorry for me. You clearly do not get what I was saying. The differences you point out between then and now are trivial. Except for the Oregon time, for instance, Rajneesh's ashram was also open to all, and apart from a core group of "ashramites", most people lived their lives in the world and visited when they could. No one was kept prisoner or bound in any way, and even those who lived in Poona for years had plenty of contact with those outside.
I was near the inner circle, and have many friends who were as close as one could be to him for many years, and who became disaffected and left, sadder but wiser, as they say. I myself saw clearly the dark aspects of what was going on, and was involved in them for some time. And yet only a handful of his disciples really saw behind the curtain. Even now, 35 years later, they give the same gushing reports that you cite with students of Mooji--how they were enormously benefited by his teaching and presence, how he was a source of pure light and love for them. They steadfastly refuse to believe that he also had feet of clay.
Why does this matter? Because it is the antithesis of the awareness that they seek. Because it creates a lacuna that must be addressed before they can move forward. You are right that this is not my business. Everyone must experience their own path, and find their own way. I am simply trying to shed some light from my perspective. As Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Bhakti is not freedom, and will never bring freedom. All I am hoping is to open some eyes. Most, like you, will not listen. What Mooji offers is like a drug. It is feel-good disguised as something it is not. This is not all Mooji's fault. He is gaining power and influence by giving people what they want. He is complicitous, but not, I think, a bad person-just a person like all of us walking here on earth. He is taking the feel-good route, just as are his students.
With Rajneesh, there was a dark side, carefully hidden from public view. There were the freakouts, the PTSD, some suicides. We are beginning to hear about that now coming out from Mooji's operation. Most disciples will downplay it--saying that these were people who were on the edge to begin with, who could not be helped in any case. There are a number of credible reports of women who came out feeling sexually used by Mooji. These are things, unpleasant as they are, that need to be looked at clearly. Of course those who get their rush from his satsangs are not going to want to give up the dream. You know that feeling of waking up from a particularly pleasant dream, and finding yourself in the dreary old world, warm under the blankets and not really wanting to get up in the cold and face the day. Eventually you will have to wake up from that dream. Why not now?