Quantcast
Channel: Cult Education Forum - "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
Viewing all articles
Browse latest Browse all 12838

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

$
0
0
Chris Butler has been a virulent anti-homosexual preacher since the very beginning of his "Science of Identity " cult in Hawaii.

Where does that way of thinking come from?

The guru of Chris Butler Swami Bhaktivedanta was privately very accepting of his homosexual disciples but publicly he was also a virulent anti-homosexual preacher as shown in the following quotes.


Prabhupada: “Watchtower.” It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosexual. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That’s all. So, therefore, people are thinking, “What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this.”

Conversation with the GBC, May 25, 1972, Los Angeles
Prabhupada: Now the priestly order supporting homosexual. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kirtanananda Maharaja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena pariciyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that “We are very much advanced.” Phalena, what is the result? Phalena pariciyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) “We are going to support homosex.” Getting married. There are many cases the priestly order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?
Devotees: Watchtower.
Prabhupada: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness.

Morning Walk, September 28, 1972, Los Angeles
Jayatirtha: Ordained priests, they have left and gone off to marry or whatever. Especially they are concerned that they can’t marry. Catholic priests are not allowed to marry.
Prabhupada: Marrying? They are marrying man to man, what to speak of marrying. Sodomy.
Jayatirtha: So that’s the alternative. Either they’re leaving or they’re marrying man to man.
Prabhupada: Homosex. They are supporting homosex. So degraded, and still they say, “What we have done?” They do not know what is degradation, and they are priest. They are teaching others. They do not know what is the meaning of degradation.
Svarupa Damodara: So if the leader is degraded, how can the followers…
Prabhupada: Similarly, scientists, they do not know what is imperfection, and they are scientists.
Devotee (2): The thing about the blind leading the blind.

Morning Walk, December 8, 1973, Los Angeles
Yasomatinandana: These Christians are very blasphemous.
Prajapati: Very blasphemous.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: Party spirit.
Prabhupada: No no, what is their value? When they are sanctioning abortion, homosex, now they are finished. They have no value.
Karandhara: Well, most or a greater proportion of the traditional Christians condemn homosex and abortion. A good quantity of the traditional Christians, they condemn abortion and homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that Pope is disgusted… Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present moment. All animals. We don’t blame only the Christians. The Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.

Morning Walk, April 2, 1975, Mayapur
Prabhupada: These so-called Christians. They say that “We are very weak. We cannot restrain ourself from sinful activities, so we believe in Christ, and he has taken contract for suffering.” That’s all.
Trivikrama: “So let us go on sinning.”
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pancadravida: Kill him again.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is their philosophy. And as they pass laws in the Parliament, similarly, these churches approve: “Yes, homosex is all right.” Then it is all right. This cheating system is going on. Similar cheating system is the Hindus also. You’ll find in Calcutta, in College Street, so many butcher house. And they have kept one goddess Kali that “We are eating Mother Kali’s prasada.” That’s it. This is going on.

Morning Walk, May 9, 1975, Perth
Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.

Morning Walk, May 11, 1975, Perth
So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guna and rajo-guna, whole material world, mostly tamo-guna and few of them in rajo-guna. The symptoms of rajo-guna and tamo-guna are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guna, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guna, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kama. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guna, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guna politics and improvement of material condition.

Morning Walk, May 11, 1975, Perth
The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization.

Morning Walk, May 13, 1975, Perth
Our difficulty: the so-called swamis, priests, popes, they are also in the pravrtti-marga. All these, priests, and they have illicit sex. Pravrtti-marga. So they are passing, “Yes, you can have homosex with man.” They are getting man-to-man marriage. You know? They are performing the marriage ceremony between man to man in the open church. What class of men they are? And they are priest. Just see. Such degraded persons, drinking… They have got hospital for curing their drinking disease. Five thousand patients in a hospital in America, all drunkards, and they are priest. Just see.

Morning Walk, May 13, 1975, Perth
Paramahamsa: They also have that “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
Prabhupada: Yes. And they are very expert in doing that. That is advanced civilization. Now they are marrying man to man and accepting homosex, so what is the value now of this priestly class?

Morning Walk, May 14, 1975, Perth
Prabhupada: Fourth-class men.
Amogha: Yeah.
Prabhupada: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that’s all, dogs and hogs. [break] …in the beginning samah. Samah, damah — first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they’re discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because…
Prabhupada: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man’s philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them — that’s not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are naradhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy?

Morning Walk, May 21, 1975, Melbourne
That means they are gliding down towards hell, that’s all. Yositam sangi-sangam. Now they are coming to the platform of homosex. This is their advancement, spiritual advancement. Yositam sangi-sangam. This is Coca-cola, everywhere.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare, May 21, 1975, Melbourne
Prabhupada: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: “Please accept me.” The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don’t mind, I don’t find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?
Director: But homosexual is a sickness.
Devotee: He said it’s an illness.
Director: It’s an illness. It’s just like a person can’t see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can’t punish a person for being homosexual. That our society says.
Prabhupada: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.
Director: Pardon?
Prabhupada: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, “All right.” And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Krishna consciousness movement.

Letter to: Lalitananda, Hawaii 26 May, 1975
I am very sorry that you have taken to homosex. It will not help you advance in your attempt for spiritual life. In fact, it will only hamper your advancement. I do not know why you have taken to such abominable activities. What can I say? Anyway, try to render whatever service you can to Krishna. Even though you are in a very degraded condition Krishna, being pleased with your service attitude, can pick you up from your fallen state. You should stop this homosex immediately. It is illicit sex, otherwise, your chances of advancing in spiritual life are nil. Show Krishna you are serious, if you are.

Morning Walk, May 28, 1975, Honolulu
Prabhupada: Yes. So what is the use of their church and preaching?
Devotee: Well, we want to tell the others so they can also be saved.
Prabhupada: No, the Christian churches, all the priests, they eat meat. They’re supporting everything, homosex, everything, man to man marriage.
Bali-mardana: Now they are making women the priests.
Prabhupada: Women priest. Women priest, there was none before?

Letter to: Jennifer Wayne Woodward, Honolulu 10 June, 1975
First of all, you decide whether you are female or male, then be one or the other. Then, you may enter our temple any time you like. But sometimes man and sometimes woman, that is not proper. Such awkward thing cannot be allowed. It will be disturbing to others. Anyway, continue to chant Hare Krishna as much as possible.

Arrival Speech, Chicago, July 3, 1975
Nitai: “Because the body is made of senses, which also require a certain amount of satisfaction, there are regulative directions for satisfaction of such senses, but the senses are not meant for unrestricted enjoyment. For example, marriage…”
Prabhupada: That is not enjoyment. Just like sex indulgence. If you indulge in more than necessary, then you will be impotent. Nature will stop. You know impotency? That will be there. Impotency. This homosex is also another sign of impotency. They do not feel sex impulse to woman. They feel sex impulse in man. That means he is impotent. It is impotency. So things are coming so rubbish now. This is the time for preaching our program, standard. Then?
Nitai: “For example, marriage, or the combination of a man with a woman, is necessary for progeny, but it is not meant for sense enjoyment.”
Prabhupada: Now this progeny is bother. It is sense enjoyment, homosex. Progeny, they don’t want. They’re not interested. Only sense gratification. This is another sign of impotency. When after enjoying so many women, they become impotent, then they artificially create another sex impulse in homosex. This is the psychology. So people are degraded so much.

Morning Walk, July 16, 1975, San Francisco
Bahulasva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.
Prabhupada: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don’t think.
Bahulasva: Yeah, dogs, they say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because the dogs do that also.

Morning Walk, September 6, 1975, Vrindavana
Prabhupada: No. Para-daresu. Matravat para-daresu. That is the injunction of the sas… Other’s wife. Not that “Oh, my wife is also my mother.” Just see. This lunacy is going on, and this lunatic man is taken as incarnation of God. This is going on. This homosex propaganda is another side of impotency. So that is natural. If you enjoy too much, then you become impotent.
Brahmananda: They are trying to make that more and more accepted in America, homosex.
Prabhupada: Yes. The churches accept. It is already law.
Nitai: This women’s liberation movement, the leaders are also homosexual. They’re lesbians.
Prabhupada: (laughs) Just see. Hare Krishna. The whole world is on the verge of ruination. Kali-yuga.

Morning Walk, December 10, 1975, Vrindavana
Indian man: She was telling me when… She… I said that “Prabhupada sometimes says these things that we feel all ashamed, you know, because…”
Devotee (2): The medicine is not always palatable for these people.
Prabhupada: But in speaking spiritual understanding we cannot make any compromise. What to speak of in Mauritius, in Chicago I told. There was great agitation in papers.
Harikesa: In the TV, on television.
Indian man: Same thing?
Devotee (2): In France also.
Prabhupada: They were very upset. And when I was coming, I think, in Chicago, in the airplane, one of the host girl, she was seeing… (laughter) I asked her to supply one 7-up. And, “I have no key.” She was so angry. But all the captains and others, they gathered around me. (laughter)
Harikesa: I think that was the same stewardess who came in the back and asked us, “Why the Swamiji doesn’t like women?”
Prabhupada: No, no, I don’t say that I don’t like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights — your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.
Aksayananda: That doesn’t mean you don’t like them.
Prabhupada: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that “If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement.”
Harikesa: Visakha was preaching to her. She said that “Actually we are less intelligent.” (laughter) That started a big scandal…
Prabhupada: Yes. And that is Krishna consciousness. [break] They are in equal right, then… Nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they’ll have homosex, and the woman also independent and they will make some… This is most immoral things.

Room Conversation, January 8, 1976, Nellore
Prabhupada: That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that “Thou shall not kill;” they say, “Thou shall not murder.” They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.
Acyutananda: Yes. Two homosexuals were married by a priest.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krishna: Now they have a church where the priests are homosexuals and the attending people are homosexual.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krishna: Now they have churches for homosex. That means the priest is a homosexual, and the persons who come are homosexuals. A special church for homosexuals.
Prabhupada: Just see. Is that religion?

Morning Walk, April 8, 1976, Mayapur
It is not their fault. The Western civilization is like that. Now you have to make a thorough change. The persons from the ecclesiastical order, they are also so polluted, they are sanctioning homosex, abortion. What can be done for the common man?

Morning Walk, June 6, 1976, Los Angeles
Just see. Rascal priests also so sinful. Yes, they’re supporting homosex. So when the priests are sinful, the public is sinful, how the church will go on? Churches, they are expecting church must support abortion and child killing.

Morning Walk, June 17, 1976, Toronto
Jagadisa: I remember, Srila Prabhupada, when I was young I was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to…
Prabhupada: …. association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class…. All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Room Conversation, June 18, 1976, Toronto
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our Godbrothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krishna: Am I mis…? You had told me once, I’m not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. You said that Vasudeva, it was known fact that he was homosex?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krishna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: He was homosex and sex, everything.
Pusta Krishna: Here, Srila Prabhupada, in this city…. I haven’t been back in so many years to America. Things have become more degraded. I’m watching women and women walking arm around each other. And I asked, “What is this?” “Oh,” he says “they are lesbians.” Women together, girlfriends. They don’t mix with men.
Prabhupada: This is now very much prevalent in America.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad, January 11, 1977, India
Ramesvara: And I found an article in the Time magazine about another translator of Bhagavad-gita, Christopher Isherwood.
Prabhupada: He is rascal, another rascal.
Ramesvara: They have reported that he is a homosexual.
Prabhupada: Just see. Now, who cares for all these nonsense?
Ramesvara: In regards to brainwashing, they claim that our life-style tends to take the devotee and isolate him from the world.
Prabhupada: Yes. We hate to mix with you. No gentleman tries to mix with loafers. In England still, the rich quarter is different from the poor quarter. Is it not?

Room Conversation, February 16, 1977, Mayapura
Homosex, what is that religion? And they’re passing to homosex, religion. They’re getting married man to man. Most degraded.

Viewing all articles
Browse latest Browse all 12838

Trending Articles



<script src="https://jsc.adskeeper.com/r/s/rssing.com.1596347.js" async> </script>