Quantcast
Channel: Cult Education Forum - "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"
Viewing all articles
Browse latest Browse all 12838

Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

$
0
0
I love these videos and others like it that claim some sort of scientific proof and end with the classic hare krishna sell: [youtu.be]

It's astounding how many videos like this abound on the internet. Videos claiming that nuclear weapons were being used in ancient india and that flying saucers and what not were somehow a daily occurrence in vedic times. Even the fairly recent dwarka discovery which clearly amounted to nothing mire than what appeared to be natural formations and a piece of drift wood dated to 7500 years ago (way before the time of the so-called krishna avatar)... it's all so silly and pathetic in it's naivety and lack of dignity.


There is much to be learned and applied from india's philosophical texts and scientific ideas—all of which may have been mentioned and contained truths and theories. This, however, does not make the various stories factual. Also, many facts and reference points in the claims here are not substantiated or even mildly agreed upon in most educated circles. At best, india's cultural history encompasses a large body of knowledge. That specific stories in the upanishads and other vedic texts somehow allude to a specific god or pantheon is utter non-sense. Many gods were worshipped. Eventually a monotheistic idea developed but at no time was the predominant consensus that krishna or chaitanya or any of the so-called vedic deities considered supreme (the original 24 avatars were conveniently narrowed down to 10 with barely a chapter dedicated to any of them). The so called hindu religion spans many ideas and ideologies—most were completely devoid of gods and focused on nature and natural sciences and more humanistic concerns. The fantastical notion that harnessing nuclear energy was somehow present during vedic times is utter non-sense with no proof. There is barely any consistent proof of the wars and dynasties of the so-called vedic period. Let alone proof of the existence of krishna and rama and many vedic characters. None. Coins of characters holding clubs and disks and archeological scattered objects with symbols popular in use at the time are not proof. That's called art people. Humans have been drawing animals and god-like figures on caves, then on potery and temple and castle walls for thousands of years. The egyptians had complex art on their temples and structures. Are we to immediately say that Ra, Osiris and Seth are real beings? How about Zeus and Athena? To recognize india as a valuable world culture is obvious and it's contributions are wonderful (not a big fan of raga music and repetitive chanting myself, but I get that it was a complex music system based on math and the seasons etc). This is nothing to dispute and I don't think any sane person will argue that India is rich in its history. Can't say modern india is much of a thing to write home about, but sure, it's history is profound.

It just seems silly to make the mental leap that just because something contained a few highlights and truths, that all of it was perfect or scientifically correct. That a few great minds found the gita or various upanishads and puranas a facitnating read does not make them guide books for what to worship and believe in. Early vedantic thought and many philosophical schools of india made it a point to not be preachy and not focus so much on the stories and tales—but rather use reason and logic to suss out what is beneficial knowledge for human conduct and social welfare. Unfortunately, philosophy is not for everyone, and so cheap stories and tales are what most people feel comfortable believing.

I find it irresponsible that so much energy is vested into basically tooting india's horn and really coming off as a nationalist and patriotic venture rather than a truly scientific one. If someone finds inspiration in the vedic texts (the 4 primary vedic texts are just hymns to nature gods—doubt that it really is relevant to modern people), or enjoys the stories of the upanishads and puranas and so forth—that's great. Obviously take it with a grain of salt. There are many people out there who will feed you a line and try to convince you that Hinduism is some sort of non-religion or a "path for all mankind" or universal etc. This is far form the truth and most of the time the people telling you this are actually cults and groups with very specific agendas and ideas about the vedic texts. They are not culturally hindu, so they come at it from either the ISKCON angle or some off shoot of that or other popular so-called hindu groups that attract mostly western practitioners who are attracted to the mystical and slightly evolved concepts compared to abrahamic religions. They are by far not representative of actual vedic culture or society. Many of these western guru's usually have ashrams in some tropical climates and run sudo-spiritual programs that attract youth and hippies/new-agers. Rarely are they attracting intelligent seekers and those who want to question and better understand the true Indian philosophical texts and concepts.

Cheap associations like the iron columns and so-called discovery of the sunken dwarka forts/ports are not symbolic of the day to day Hinduism that exists in India. Go to india. See it for yourself. There is little in the way of a spiritual culture that has universal appeal or practical application for the common person. No one is going to sit around and chant mantras all day. Even the deities and various temples dedicated to the deities are at best an acquired taste. Many of them are bizarre, have odd, fantastical tales woven around them and much of the "hinduism" we know in the west is not practiced at all in most of india (people don't really do asana-based yoga, they don't study the scriptures in any depth, they sure as heck don't chant 16 rounds a day—that is not what hinduism means to most hindus). Things like yoga (i.e. stretching and breathing) as well as chanting of simple mantras like hare krishna or elegant and elaborate temples with clean interiors and in general clean access to bathrooms and peaceful people in meditative states are NOT what you will see in india. People are just living their lives and believing in their gods and gurus never questioning or trying to understand more. In general there is a lot of cheesy expressions of the religion on billboards, in temples and most cities. In the west we try to portray this intellectual high-end scientific universal path called "Sanatana Dharma". But that is not what you see in india—at all. And it's very suspect and arguable that there was ever a so-called zenith of vedic culture (the closest thing to it was a primarily buddhist empire and samkhya being taught as a universal world view). More likely this only comes through in the ramayana tales and mahabharat fables as a cool story to create allegiance and a sense of belonging. A national tale of success and power. Were there great capitals and amazing cultural centers in ancient india? Sure, but nothing as evolved and amazing as say, modern day New York city or even ancient rome. There is no proof of it and there is no real current expression of it that hints at it having much in the way of influence in india today. You can barely find a bathroom in most of india and it's a run down country with many superstitions and failed social systems—it was even worse before the british and one can only use their imagination the further back you go. There was obviously many seats of power and cultural development in parts of india. But it was not a collective thing. Kings throughout history liked to feel proud and they often had poets and writers compose stories to solidify their claim and contributions to society. These thinkers and poets stumbled upon concepts and ideas that they later formed into schools of thought and various systems of knowledge. This was not something specific to india. In fact, if anything, india lacked a written language for so long that much of it's even more recent history was crudely recorded. Stories of various dynasties were exaggerated and fabricated to facilitate the spread and propaganda of various empires and their governing systems (caste being a very big one).

What really gets my goat here is the variety of ancient and modern indian cultural contributions is somehow being brought to the foreground as support for chanting hare krishna. That's ludicrous. It's like describing ancient egyptian, chinese or roman cultures and their historical contributions to science, philosophy and spirituality and then making the leap that we need to somehow see that as a sign that some fringe song or mantra in their ancient books holds the key to happiness and or world peace. Please. Don't insult India's history and culture by reducing it to a fanatical cult.

I'm so tired of reading and seeing naive articles stating the discovery of some archeological site or otherwise fantastical claims of flying spaceships or nuclear weapons with vedic origin being found as proof for the existence of krishna or the superiority of the hindu religion. This is utter nonsense. Hinduism or India's cultural heritage is just that: A heritage, a culture, a fascinating country with a fascinating history (or in some cases lack there of since no records exist of many supposed events beyond the scriptures that claim them to be true that barely date back 3500 years) and much to teach the world and contribute. Nothing more and nothing less. There is no need to put india on a pedestal over any other country nor it's so called claim on spirituality. Great art, music, philosophy, religion, architecture, scientific works, stories and political/social contributions are made by every great nation and abound throughout the world from south america to africa to europe, to china, and everything in between—small to big and many more to come.

We do however, live in a time where we have airplanes and great cities and advanced technologies and much has been discovered in terms of science, technology, industry, phycology, etc. In fact, none of the information here in the video could be possible to have had access to in bygone days. Information traveled slowly. So we now live in a time where we can condense thousands of years of india's history and even the planets evolution. And so we do not have a realistic portrait of things as far as how slowly and how far apart so many things are. We hear that some scriptures were written and they are ancient, but realistically, many of the scriptures of india were not written 5000-10000 years ago, but much much more recently. Most are traced to 2000-3500 max. After that we have little verifiable information. And rest assured—these scriptures and so-called scientific texts were revised, added to, adjusted and misinterpreted countless times by countless people—for their agendas and personal convictions. Yes, people. Not gods, not angels, not some mystic saints with elephant gods writing with broken tusks. People. Writers, poets, logicians, artists, scientists and philosophers—over the course of many hundreds and thousands of years. There was no "revealed knowledge" that vyasa just wrote down (sorry, ganesh) in one fell swoop. In fact, much of the knowledge in various shastras and supplementary vedic texts were developed right in line with and at the same time as many other scientific and philosophical discoveries and contributions were being made globally. Not just in india. Mathematical concepts, writing, architecture, art, religion, etc—many of the major discoveries in these fields of knowledge were being shared and discovered by moving tribes, shifting and conquering dynasties and eventually via the written, documented word. It seems foolish to highlight india with the singular very biased aim of having people superstitiously be convinced that chanting hare krishna is the best thing ever or has any more potency than chanting or meditating on any phrase or sound that one associates with peace and tranquility. It's also not healthy to be so preoccupied with living a life of no stress and complete mental peace. It robs us of rich experiences and the ability to grow stronger and build our own authentic and personal view of reality. Artificially imposing a framework of thought and belief simply robs our mind and dulls it of it's ability to seek and learn and question and form real ideas based in reality—not fiction.

Viewing all articles
Browse latest Browse all 12838

Trending Articles



<script src="https://jsc.adskeeper.com/r/s/rssing.com.1596347.js" async> </script>