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Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Austerity and renunciation of comforts is part of most spiritual practice and comes with the territory. That's a conscious personal choice most make. I don't recall ISKCON giving out blowup mattresses and hot showers. Most temple food is from the food bank.

So I think that the hypocrisy lies in the fact that often times the guru doesn't seem to be living in the same austere conditions. Also, gurus are human. They like attention. For every guru out there who is overdoing it with sense indulging, there are the others Who seek attention through renunciation.

Are all gurus false? Perhaps. It's hard to know. And since most of these groups forbid you to question the authority of the guru, and challenge their position in anyway, to verify what they are saying and how they are behaving, it's nearly impossible to tell in any authentic way. And unfortunately the very Scriptures are also full of contradicting statements about how such so-called saintly persons should behave and conduct themselves. Often there is allowance given for such extreme exhibitions of abuse, while maintaining that the pure Devotee is beyond material consideration. How convenient.

Many of these injunctions rewk of brahminical superiority complexes to keep the population subjugated while the top half goes unquestioned. So many times I have seen these Groos being asked questions that they answer with something so unintelligible yet, everyone just moves along and takes it as it is without calling them on it and telling them that what they just said makes absolutely no sense.

Re: New Haven Native American Church-Paul Dean

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I don't like the idea of "snitching" to the DEA (people can do what they want, but I personally don't want to be associated with "snitching"). Or to the IRS (it is not difficult for an incorporated church to get a tax exemption) or the FDA (which would get involved only if the group is claiming direct healing from these medicines).

The DEA knows how to use the internet, and if people are talking about the activities of groups like NHNAC in places like this, the DEA will turn up the information if they are interested enough to investigate it.

So it is enough to start a thread about them and discuss them here. I'm glad this informational thread has been started, if only because I personally am interested in more information about them -- although, does the NHNAC really qualify as a "cult"? And, if so, shouldn't there also be a thread on ONAC, the original group that started this fallacious idea that NAC members have blanket permission to use "all earth-based sacraments," and original parent group of NHNAC?

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Dabs- LOL !!

Quote: “When I read or hear about these abuses ...i just want to go to Hawaii and kick his ass..” End quote.

Hah!! Dear Dabs-- Welcome to "The Line”- there are a few people ahead of you....

[youtu.be]

Re: "The Well Ministries"

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Hi...curious about your experience. My son is involved with them. Getting worried.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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Snitching -- it depends on the social identity the person doing the information sharing.

Someone who is not a member of the group owes nothing to tjat group by way of loyalty -- or silence.

If you are a citizen or resident alien of the USA and you are concerned that a person or group is doing something that might be hazardous to the public, you have every right to contact law enforcement agencies

Only someone who is already a member of a group could be considered a potential snitch by other members of the group should that person go to the authorities after deciding the group is doing something that could be harmful.

A person or a group must have quite a sense of entitlement to believe that its project outweighs a persons civil and human right to report concerns to the police.

The tribal peoples who are the original custodians of plant medicines and do not sell access to them have
nothing to fear from the law enforcement authorities. Their access is protected by law.

Non native Americans who have appropriated plant medicines from their original custodians and are selling access - they're the ones who worry about the authorities giving attention to them as a result of Trintiy
indiscreet behavior.

Re: New Haven Native American Church-Paul Dean

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No one is asking another member of this thread to be associated with snitching.

And CEI is for everyone who has an interest. These ayahuasca and drug related threads are for the expression of all viewpoints.

Ayahuasca positive discussion venues abound on the internet.

And...the police, including the DEA need information, tips, 'snitching' if you want to call it that, in order to do their jobs.

It is our First Amendment right as citizens and resident aliens to speak up if we have reason to suspect that something is being done that could be potentially harmful.

Snitching -- it depends on the social identity the person doing the information sharing.

Someone who is not a member of the group owes nothing to tjat group by way of loyalty -- or silence.

If you are a citizen or resident alien of the USA and you are concerned that a person or group is doing something that might be hazardous to the public, you have every right to contact law enforcement agencies

Only someone who is already a member of a group could be considered a potential snitch by other members of the group should that person go to the authorities after deciding the group is doing something that could be harmful.

A person or a group must have quite a sense of entitlement to believe that its project outweighs a persons civil and human right to report concerns to the police.

The tribal peoples who are the original custodians of plant medicines and do not sell access to them have
nothing to fear from the law enforcement authorities. Their access is protected by law.

Non native Americans who have appropriated plant medicines from their original custodians and are selling access - they're the ones who worry about the authorities giving attention to them as a result of Trintiy
indiscreet behavior.

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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You know what, to me that crosses the line into "snitching."

Gayle the definition you have about informing the DEA about TRINITY
possibly using San Pedro ...is misguided

Yes I did call the Us immigration....yes I contacted other agencies in the USA and Canada ...and also in Peru ..this thread is about stopping a guy from causing damages to the body and mind of the potential customers of Trinity .

there nothing wrongin informing the DEA..the police ...whohever can get involve that he is using san Pedro and other drugs in Peru and would probably use them in the USA if he had a chance ...We already know that he is associated with phoney indian organizations ...we know he cheated people from their hard earn money ...we know he had delusions of opening 30 churches ...and doing meetings with 100 participants ...you are dead wrong on this one Gayle .i will tell whatever I know to whohever I can reach that can stop that dangerous idiot...
If you want to call me a snitch....well go ahead dear ...You sound like you want to protect part of the life of this ..criminal ...but want to expose another part ...YOU ARE WRONG AND CONFUSING and sound confuse yourself
make up your mind ...we do all we can to stop him ...this is not my friend ...this is not an associate ...I am certainly not the "BROTHERS AND SISTERS " that he is so found of using at the beginning of each video ...He is a deceiver and a tief ...that because he cant get in the USA fled to PERU ...make your mind girl.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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VOX you are sooooo funny ...Ok I will be just behind you in the line ...I will give you the honors .

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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HAH !!-- Dabs...I am behind Rama..who knows who else is in front of him...hahahaha...

Here’s the "line-up" so far:

[youtu.be]

Re: New Haven Native American Church-Paul Dean

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To be in the spirit of "the expression of all viewpoints":

Some people are more concerned about potential abuse from state agencies than about a bunch of people getting high in the middle of nowhere.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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Madana Mohana Academy.

Educators or predators?

Education is not just about maths and sciences. It’s doubtful, if the Madana Mohana Academy even provide them properly. Math, maybe, but Science opposes superstitious beliefs, all religious cults are made-up of.

Math and Science are fine, they are essential in finding employment.

Reading is another matter. Reading is like the portal to a higher knowledge and is key to critical thinking.

Critical thinking is what it meant to be truly educated. The rest becomes side dish.

Our primitive ancestors survived a much harsher environment because of their keener sense and deeper understanding of the land. Upon reaching young adulthood, the boys are given weapons and tools and join the hunt. At the transitional age they will start killing for their food and must be skillful enough to hunt or to fend off predation, otherwise they become the food. This is the rite of passage and is basically similar across all cultures.

We don’t kill for food anymore and we live in safer cities. Gone are the forests, mountains and savannahs. But the herd-predator dynamic is pretty much the same; predation unfortunately is still a huge part of modern life. Predators don’t go about just preying on preys. It’s not that easy. They look for the weak ones. They may try mock chase to see who can’t run very fast or scan the herds for visual cues.

Education is most critical in fending off predation because predation has gone psychological. Children who were not properly educated, therefore are lacking critical thinking are comparable to young adults during the primitive time that did not undergo the rite of passage. It’s like sending them deep into the jungle without the shield and the spear.

Pimps, rapists, drug-dealers, criminals are today’s predators, but they are nothing compared to the likes of religious cults. It’s easy to spot predators when they are obvious, but when they are posing as do-gooders or educators, they prey on en-masse. That demands critical thinking to tell.

No Real or Informed Choice

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Vox ~ That movie clip was hysterical. Thanks so much for all of the laughs. Much appreciated.

Quote
IanKoviak
Austerity and renunciation of comforts is part of most spiritual practice and comes with the territory. That's a conscious personal choice most make.

...there is allowance given for such extreme exhibitions of abuse, while maintaining that the pure Devotee is beyond material consideration. How convenient.

...Many of these injunctions reek of brahminical superiority complexes to keep the population subjugated while the top half goes unquestioned. So many times I have seen these Groos being asked questions that they answer with something so unintelligible yet, everyone just moves along and takes it as it is without calling them on it and telling them that what they just said makes absolutely no sense.

It is neither conscious nor personal when under the influence of a flim flam man, a con man, a manipulative poseur.

Butler hides behind so many layers and facades. Hiding under The myths of Hinduism, the disciplic succession, pure devotee-hood, infallibility, Butler can do and say anything.

His famous public humiliation "chastisement tapes" hold sway over his most devoted followers. It is a sick, but very effective method of holding on to followers; decimating critical thinking and resistance. A strange form of "Stockhom Syndrome" occurs with these people, so real choice is not even a consideration.

corboy and Rick Ross ~ Do you know of any good articles explaining public humiliation techniques as used by LGATs and cults?

Found another Butler propaganda website, translated into Croatian, Romanian, German, and Polish. That part of the world has been in a lot of turmoil, ripe for "spiritual answers". What is lacking are the real teachings of Butler on the website. The idyllic Bhakti Shack world of Hawaii looks like heaven on earth.

Hiding in his own mirror image, here is a great example of Jagad Guru Chris Butler (Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa)'s veiw of himself in his own words. As corboy stated, it is not the philosophy but the behavior of cult leaders that is important.

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Jagad Guru Chris Butler (Siddhaswarupananda Paramahamsa) © 2007 Science of Identity Foundation - fair use excerpt used for critical review

"Unfortunately, a person who is materialistic, greedy, and self-worshiping wants to take the place of God. He sees himself as the center of the universe. He sees everything and everyone-the world, people, his family, animals, plants, the environment-as revolving around him. He sees everything and everyone as meant for his enjoyment. The world is full of such exploitative people, and they cause so many problems."

Unfortunate indeed. What the Poles, Croats, Romanians, Germans, and everyone else don't know is that this cult is not some flowery answer to economic chaos, wars and sectarian violence. It is just another frying pan to get toasted in for the benefit of a few elite masters. The website hides the real mind and spirit of Jagged Screwball. It hides what you will actually be doing once you are fully "surrendered" and given over all your time, money, life, and sadly, the life of your children who have no real choice in the matter.

Is making a choice under the influence of a guru a conscious choice or giving over choice?

New Henry Jolicoeur Video

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Lord Krishna Is Not A Historical Personality? ISKCON - Sampradaya Sun - Tulsi Gabbard DELUSIONALS?

https://youtu.be/OUQ4s42-O1c

The new video from Henry Jolicoeur "DABCULT"

Enjoy!

For your own good?

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IanKoviac wrote:

Quote

Wow. It's totally another butler school. The coed part is a nice touch. Hope sex Ed consists of more than anti-homosexual rhetoric and teaching kids that sex is not conducive to anything but having more Krishna kids...

Usually the kids in the schools were sent there so parents can focus on "service". I truly hope these kids get to go home every day and see their parents.

Corboy: One thing to keep an eye on: some cults have gained the trust of the general public by operating schools.

I am going to give a real life example.

The schools appear excellent to a general public anxious to obtain private education for children and willing to pay for it.

What parents are not told is that in this system, Rudolf Steiner was and remains the infallible guru. Steiner created his own interpretation of a karmic belief system.

It is too easy for karmic belief systems to include some hidden Brahmins
who define and establish a caste system and one that applies to outsiders.

One example are the schools operated according to the teachings of Rudolf Steiner/Anthroposophy, aka Waldof Schools.

Deceit, Waldorf astral

[www.google.com]

Steiner, Waldorf, racism

[www.google.com]

litigation against Waldorf whistleblowers

[www.google.com]

Gregoire Perra -former Waldorf teacher sued for giving insider information-
case against him dismissed.

[www.google.com]

Anthros believe that they have the skills and knowledge needed to create settings which actually bring down benign astral influences. They are convinced that non Anthroposophists, especially children, get good karmic influences by being
in Anthroposophically designed environments and events, and that this will
lead them to have good future rebirths.

As a result Anthroposophists feel entitled to hide the true nature of
their belief system from persons who would deprive themselves and their children
of all the karmic benefits.

What if, some day in the future, Butlerites were to create this kind of karma based dont tell them for their own good school, or God forbid, eldercare?

Why object?

For one thing, it is disrespectful and dishonest to hide information from
adults who would otherwise refuse to associate with you.

It is yet more condescending to conceal information from adults "for their own good."

So look out for anything led by a guru, poohbah, avatar, sheikh, murdhit.

If a school operates according to a system of secrets witheld from outsiders and lower ranking members, the latter find it impossible to please their superiors
because they do not know what the actual rules are. Parents are often
asked or required to donate volunteer time to the school, so they need to know
the actual rules -- both the spoken and unspoken rules. Otherwise the set
up will feel like a secret ridden family - aka toxic.

Now, back to our coverage of Chris Butler, Tulsi Gabbard, the Gabbard family and

--the bloody death of Shri Shim.

Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity

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A few weeks ago I had 2 Jehovah witnesses knock at my door ...and just to have a conversation ..i let them in my home and they started talking...and talking and talking ...It was easy to quickly realize that they where totally brainwash
they had all the awnsers prepare for all the questions ...and they where mostly totally ignorant of Buddhism and Hinduism ...and then I met a few young Mormons
while visiting Ashville North Carolina and it was more of the same .Then I met a dozen Hare Krishna in the streets when I was Tel Aviv in Israel ..a few months ago ...and again more of the same prepare response to any questions ... Krishna is the real God ..on and on ...but it was worst for the Hare Krishnas because none of them could really speak or read english ...They depended on some very few translations of the books of Swami Bhaktivedanta ...and trusted a Hare Krishna Swami that mostly live in Russia .
This made me think how easy it is to fill the mind of converts with specific informations ...and turn them loose to go and convert more people .

Then I tought of me when I was 19 years old in 1969 meeting the Hare krishna in Los Angeles and how I just surrendered my mind and my heart to Swami Bhaktivedanta and the theology of the blue God Krishna ...i was already a speed reader ...so I read everything Swami Bhaktivedanta had written
and just accepted everything that he said ..no questions ask ...and then I was with him in India pretty much 24/7 for 6 months serving him ...Then without questioning I was sent to open centers in South America and there I convince hundreds of people that blue God Krishna was the Supreme personality of Godhead
By then I was a Swami that had promise to Swami Bhaktivedanta to never have sex ever again I was 23 years old ...When I did have sex I wanted to do as a few other Swami had done ...commit suicide ..(but fortunatly my futur wife became pregnant ...and I abandon the idea f suicide ).That is HOW BRAINWASH I WAS .It took years to slowly be able to deprogrammed myself .
So now i am saying there is not one single proof that Krishna ever existed
NONE ... Now I can say that the stories that a Hare Krishna as to believe are just ...unbelievable and mostly crasy stuff
compare to the life of Jesus or Buddha ...Krishna lifting a montain with one finger .....10,000 wifes and he could be in 10,000 palaces at the same time with them ...fight with Demons that where miles high ...on and on and on and on
Some sages 3000 miles ago might have wrote these stories to explain philosophy to a mainly uneducated masses of Indians ...but Historically it does not make any senses....And then we have one of the recipient of theses stories Chris Butler who declare himself JAGAT guru ....the one and only pure representative of Lord Krishna on earth ... who makes thousands of people adore him ...even dishing his toe nails as a form of HOLY COMUNION.. because he is so dear to Krishna ...and making millions of dollars on the back of quasi slaves disciples ...with also the help of very devoted drug dealers ...and then putting in congress a completely brainwash Tulsi Gabbard that as been feed that PURE DEVOTEE JAGAT GURU SOUP since she was born .
Now folks ...I will let it to your jugement to realize the immensity of this
tremendous SCAM..and lets not forget the 1000 kids that went the the Hare Krishna schools and where beaten and sexually molested ...now 25 of them have committed suicide unable to live with the abuses they have received ..
ITS AN IMMENSE DECEPTIONS
.

Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

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A few weeks ago I had 2 Jehovah witnesses knock at my door ...and just to have a conversation ..i let them in my home and they started talking...and talking and talking ...It was easy to quickly realize that they where totally brainwash
they had all the awnsers prepare for all the questions ...and they where mostly totally ignorant of Buddhism and Hinduism ...and then I met a few young Mormons
while visiting Ashville North Carolina and it was more of the same .Then I met a dozen Hare Krishna in the streets when I was Tel Aviv in Israel ..a few months ago ...and again more of the same prepare response to any questions ... Krishna is the real God ..on and on ...but it was worst for the Hare Krishnas because none of them could really speak or read english ...They depended on some very few translations of the books of Swami Bhaktivedanta ...and trusted a Hare Krishna Swami that mostly live in Russia .
This made me think how easy it is to fill the mind of converts with specific informations ...and turn them loose to go and convert more people .

Then I tought of me when I was 19 years old in 1969 meeting the Hare krishna in Los Angeles and how I just surrendered my mind and my heart to Swami Bhaktivedanta and the theology of the blue God Krishna ...i was already a speed reader ...so I read everything Swami Bhaktivedanta had written
and just accepted everything that he said ..no questions ask ...and then I was with him in India pretty much 24/7 for 6 months serving him ...Then without questioning I was sent to open centers in South America and there I convince hundreds of people that blue God Krishna was the Supreme personality of Godhead
By then I was a Swami that had promise to Swami Bhaktivedanta to never have sex ever again I was 23 years old ...When I did have sex I wanted to do as a few other Swami had done ...commit suicide ..(but fortunatly my futur wife became pregnant ...and I abandon the idea f suicide ).That is HOW BRAINWASH I WAS .It took years to slowly be able to deprogrammed myself .
So now i am saying there is not one single proof that Krishna ever existed
NONE ... Now I can say that the stories that a Hare Krishna as to believe are just ...unbelievable and mostly crasy stuff
compare to the life of Jesus or Buddha ...Krishna lifting a montain with one finger .....10,000 wifes and he could be in 10,000 palaces at the same time with them ...fight with Demons that where miles high ...on and on and on and on
Some sages 3000 miles ago might have wrote these stories to explain philosophy to a mainly uneducated masses of Indians ...but Historically it does not make any senses....And then we have one of the recipient of theses stories Chris Butler who declare himself JAGAT guru ....the one and only pure representative of Lord Krishna on earth ... who makes thousands of people adore him ...even dishing his toe nails as a form of HOLY COMUNION.. because he is so dear to Krishna ...and making millions of dollars on the back of quasi slaves disciples ...with also the help of very devoted drug dealers ...and then putting in congress a completely brainwash Tulsi Gabbard that as been feed that PURE DEVOTEE JAGAT GURU SOUP since she was born .
Now folks ...I will let it to your jugement to realize the immensity of this
tremendous SCAM..and lets not forget the 1000 kids that went the the Hare Krishna schools and where beaten and sexually molested ...now 25 of them have committed suicide unable to live with the abuses they have received ..
ITS AN IMMENSE DECEPTIONS

Re: Hare Krishna sects not related to Chris Butler/SOI

Re: Trinity de Guzman - Ayahuasca Healings (WA, USA)

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I am not telling anyone else what to do, only saying what I personally am or am not comfortable with.

Re: New Haven Native American Church-Paul Dean

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I am not telling anyone else what to do. I am only mentioning what I do or do not feel comfortable with.

Re: New Haven Native American Church-Paul Dean

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Paul H Dean has several corporations in Ava, MO, two are active, one is dissolved.

*Greenies Company, for profit

*New Haven Native American Church, active nonprofit
Listed in corporation records for New Haven Native American Church:
Dean, Paul "Man Found Standing"
Cluff, Justin "Chief Zerotize"
Crookston, Bevonne "Pahamay"
Cluff, Jean M

*Sacred Way Lodge, dissolved nonprofit, dissolved because they did not keep up with paperwork, as of April 2015. They are not supposed to do any business except for winding up of their affairs. "New Haven Sacred Way Lodge" is still used on their Meetup announcements.

Missouri searches can be done here: [bsd.sos.mo.gov]

----

Paul H Dean had a corporation in Utah named Native American Nutritionals, that is no longer active.
Michael Vincent of Rocky Mountain Oils now has that company, doing business as Native American Nutritionals. I don't know if Dean is still involved.

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Paul H Dean is also involved in this [www.weasone.com] "Global Currency Reserve, Crypto Currency, The World's Cure"


He has announced this on his Facebook page:

Quote

Man Found Standing
March 12 ·
I have spent a few months learning about crypto currencies (like Bitcoin). I put up a basic free webpage for those wanting to learn more. There is a lot of wonderful information that can assist you financially if you take the time in reading and watching the videos. Go to www.WeAsOne.com and have a look. I see a powerful vision where a minority can truly use this information to change the world in a positive way.

Registrant for the site is listed as Man Found Standing.
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